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This is What it's Like to Be a Woman at a Bitcoin Meetup

ariannasimpson.com

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Re: This is What it's Like to Be a Woman at a Bitcoin Meetup

#281

Post by clavalle »

throwawaycoder wrote: post #224
clavalle wrote: post #210

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In that case, your comment is misplaced. I don't think this guy represents any group of people either. I was commenting on why the woman might be justified in worrying about a physical attack if she embarrassed the creep because he obviously doesn't have much in the way of boundaries.

Sorry, I probably really misread you. I also read the article again and personally I don't think the situation sounds that threatening - there were a whole bunch of people there, including a good male friend. Nevertheless, "she could have said something" is of course not an excuse for rude behavior. I wouldn't want to excuse his behavior. As I said, if I knew him, I probably wouldn't like him much and certainly would…

Ok. I am a big, intimidating looking guy (or so I've been told). Next time I see you, how about I just go ahead and put my hand on your waist, lead you to a chair, sit you down next to me than put my hand on your leg while saying shitty things about whatever group you might identify.

Then we'll see how you feel about the situation.

Could you even imagine such a thing?

Re: This is What it's Like to Be a Woman at a Bitcoin Meetup

#282

Post by snowwrestler »

gnaritas wrote: post #202
snowwrestler wrote: post #185

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem is that she wants to be there, wants to meet all these people, wants to be accepted as a fellow bitcoin enthusiast, wants to make a good impression, wants to maybe make some friends, or maybe just some connections. It's hard to do any of that when 5 minutes in, you're shoving somebody and chastising them publicly. The groper is not going to react well to that. They're not going to think they did anything…

No one should care how the groper responds, after they hear "stop groping me jerk" he's going to be the one shunned, not her. Assholes never think they're wrong; you shouldn't care what they think. It's not at all hard to do any of that if it's clear to people around you who the asshole was. I keep seeing people talk about how the groper is going to react... seriously, who gives a shit how the villain acts, he's the…

I am explaining how the victim feels. The issue is not the groper, the issue is everyone else, who may or may not react the way you think they should.

Look back at the story of the woman who stood up for her feelings at the tech conference by calling out behavior she thought was inappropriate. Some people agreed with her, but others derided and attacked her.

Whether one side or the other was more morally correct in your eyes is not the point. The point is that it sucks to be the object of social tension.

And it's not really fair for you to define how tolerant other people should be of that pressure.

Re: This is What it's Like to Be a Woman at a Bitcoin Meetup

#283

Post by dgempesaw »

rfnslyr wrote: post #197
hbags wrote: post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it's absolutely disgusting that you criticize the victim for documenting what happened to her. It's despicable and downright fucking evil that you basically accuse her of sharing her story solely because she wants attention. The worst part of your god-awful post is that it's currently pinned to the top of this board. The fact that your disgusting, insensitive post is at the top is why women don't work in tech…

Jesus christ you must have SERIOUS emotional issues. You know how this situation should have been actually handled? "Hey [groper], get your hands off me, I don't appreciate being touched by someone I don't know and I don't appreciate your remarks either." 10 seconds, situation over. But instead, OP decided to write a novel on this "experience", and generalized to: meetups, women, and tech. Now if other women read thi…

You know how this situation should have been actually handled?

Men shouldn't grope women they don't know. (yes, okay, people in general shouldn't grope strangers, not all men, not all women, okay, thanks.)

0 seconds; situation never happened, and you never added to the misogyny on HN.

Re: This is What it's Like to Be a Woman at a Bitcoin Meetup

#284

Post by gnaritas »

snowwrestler wrote: post #282
gnaritas wrote: post #202

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No one should care how the groper responds, after they hear "stop groping me jerk" he's going to be the one shunned, not her. Assholes never think they're wrong; you shouldn't care what they think. It's not at all hard to do any of that if it's clear to people around you who the asshole was. I keep seeing people talk about how the groper is going to react... seriously, who gives a shit how the villain acts, he's the…

I am explaining how the victim feels. The issue is not the groper, the issue is everyone else, who may or may not react the way you think they should. Look back at the story of the woman who stood up for her feelings at the tech conference by calling out behavior she thought was inappropriate. Some people agreed with her, but others derided and attacked her. Whether one side or the other was more morally correct in y…

OK, that's much clearer, I wasn't getting your point before. Noted.

Re: This is What it's Like to Be a Woman at a Bitcoin Meetup

#285

Post by dgempesaw »

meritt wrote: post #3

> In my mind, it’s a little preposterous that if I want to do so, however, I have to be ok with being felt up and indirectly insulted. To the author: You're right, it's unacceptable but you know how to fix it? You say something at the point in which it occurs. Nip it in the bud. Running off to write yet another gender-division-in-the-tech-world blog which will be read, primarily, by the sort of folk who already agree…

If we actually want to "nip it in the bud," shouldn't we be talking at/about/towards the men who groped and insulted her ? That's the actual bud here, right? Why are we all trying to police her behavior instead of the men who attacked her?

Re: This is What it's Like to Be a Woman at a Bitcoin Meetup

#286

Post by kordless »

hbags wrote: post #170
kordless wrote: post #160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I usually stay away from making blaming statements, but you're an asshat. Merritt didn't criticize anyone - instead they (she?) offered suggestions for a path to conflict resolution. You, on the other hand, are making a slew of blaming statements that are made up bullshit. What you are angry about, I'm unsure. I'll hazard you don't know either. Cognitive dissonance at its finest, folks.

Meritt absolutely made blaming statements. Even the most charitable reading of his post is him complaining that she decided to make clickbait. He tried to shame her and degrade her for having shared her story instead of doing something else. He's an asshole. Fuck him.

Sometimes you're wrong. You're wrong now.

There are ZERO emotions in Merrit's comment. I understand you are upset about this, but really Merrit isn't the bad guy. You should think about why and try to not blame others for how you feel about it. This type of behavior isn't healthy for any of us.

Sorry I called you an asshat. I hope you figure it out.

Re: This is What it's Like to Be a Woman at a Bitcoin Meetup

#287

Post by BlackDeath3 »

DanBC wrote: post #274
BlackDeath3 wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think I actually said that, so I'm not sure where the hostility comes from, but... maybe? Sure, she shouldn't have to be competent at self-defense just to leave the house and meet-up with some fellow Bitcoiners (or any other hobbyists), but I think that if you don't have some sort of backup plan, you're basically at the will of whatever you meet along the way. It seems that you disagree. Care to talk about it…

Other people came to a similar conusion to me. So, being charitable, your post wasn't as clear as it could be. That's me being civil. If you agree that I misread your post you can stop reading here because the rest of this post is less civil and not relevant. On the other hand maybe you really do think that women should learn self defence or somesuch because they could be the victims of violent crime. Except this was…

Well, people love a good disagreement, don't they?

Do I think that people should learn self-defense because they could be victims of violent crime? That's one reason to do so, yes. As women tend to be a particularly vulnerable subset of "people", this applies to them in particular.

What does it matter if this scenario was not that of a particular type of violent crime? I don't see where you're going with the mugging comparison. Violent crime is violent crime.

That I didn't immediately chastise the aggressor doesn't mean that I don't blame the aggressor, but the fact is (and I've said this in another comment) if you cannot defend yourself, you are at the mercy of forces beyond your control. This is not a life philosophy or a political position, but a piece of advice based on fact of reality. Call it "victim blaming" if you want to (and I know that you do), I call it living in the real world.

If I'm caught in a mugging, it isn't necessarily my fault (even if I could have taken steps to prevent such a situation) and I probably didn't choose to get mugged, but that doesn't mean I shouldn't have some sort of self-defense plan in-place to mitigate risk.

This isn't about right and wrong. This is about surviving in a world that many of us forget is still very often hostile to our existence.

Re: This is What it's Like to Be a Woman at a Bitcoin Meetup

#288

Post by DanBC »

BlackDeath3 wrote: post #287
DanBC wrote: post #274

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Other people came to a similar conusion to me. So, being charitable, your post wasn't as clear as it could be. That's me being civil. If you agree that I misread your post you can stop reading here because the rest of this post is less civil and not relevant. On the other hand maybe you really do think that women should learn self defence or somesuch because they could be the victims of violent crime. Except this was…

Well, people love a good disagreement, don't they? Do I think that people should learn self-defense because they could be victims of violent crime? That's one reason to do so, yes. As women tend to be a particularly vulnerable subset of "people", this applies to them in particular. What does it matter if this scenario was not that of a particular type of violent crime? I don't see where you're going with the mugging…

Some people, and I'm obviously one of them, think that a flag is raised when someone mentions things like self defence or other victim behaviours before condemning the attacker.

Whether you like that or not you need to be aware of it because you will meet people who are very much less civil than I am if you discuss this.

Re: This is What it's Like to Be a Woman at a Bitcoin Meetup

#289

Post by throwawaycoder »

clavalle wrote: post #281
throwawaycoder wrote: post #224

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sorry, I probably really misread you. I also read the article again and personally I don't think the situation sounds that threatening - there were a whole bunch of people there, including a good male friend. Nevertheless, "she could have said something" is of course not an excuse for rude behavior. I wouldn't want to excuse his behavior. As I said, if I knew him, I probably wouldn't like him much and certainly would…

Ok. I am a big, intimidating looking guy (or so I've been told). Next time I see you, how about I just go ahead and put my hand on your waist, lead you to a chair, sit you down next to me than put my hand on your leg while saying shitty things about whatever group you might identify. Then we'll see how you feel about the situation. Could you even imagine such a thing?

I don't know what you are going on about? Did I claim it is pleasant?

Nevertheless it would be nice to meet you and do the experiment. One thing: I can't imagine I would remain sitting next to you.

Re: This is What it's Like to Be a Woman at a Bitcoin Meetup

#290

Post by DanBC »

UnoriginalGuy wrote: post #148
zasz wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not just about having a young daughter. People need to teach their sons that they shouldn't be putting their hands on women's waists and legs. That is the other reason to write blog posts on this--to make men aware that they shouldn't be doing things like this.

I'm pretty sure everyone younger than 30 is well aware that such things aren't acceptable. In case you haven't noticed almost all cases are by people in their 50s or older who grew up in a different period and have different norms for social interaction. At least that is certainly the case where I grew up. You keep your hands to yourself (and typically leave it to women to initiate things since doing otherwise will o…

I really hope it is true that it's just a generational thing.

http://www.newstatesman.com/glosswitch/2013/09/there-no-grea...

This article says that research shows young people having weird attitudes about rape.

Maybe there are problems with the research; maybe the results would be very different if people were asked about the situation in the article.

But to just say "this is a problem with older people" feels sub-optimal.

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