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Apple decided not to roll out Siri in EU after denied request for exemption

reuters.com

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Re: Apple decided not to roll out Siri in EU after denied request for exemption

#281

Post by inetknght »

dd8601fn wrote: post #212
anon7000 wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, this is unrelated from privacy. The issue is that the EU won’t allow the new Siri because Apple isn’t willing to open up the system enough for 3rd party AI agents to get the same functionality.

Functionally the EU is requiring that Apple dramatically RELAX their privacy and security postures. I’m sure Apple doesn’t want to cave and give OpenAI free access to the spotlight semantic db, the ability see what’s on your screen at all times, etc.

> Functionally the EU is requiring that Apple dramatically RELAX their privacy and security postures.

No. Interoperability doesn't require Apple relax their privacy and security postures. It could instead require third parties to improve theirs.

Re: Apple decided not to roll out Siri in EU after denied request for exemption

#282

Post by microtonal »

dd8601fn wrote: post #212
anon7000 wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, this is unrelated from privacy. The issue is that the EU won’t allow the new Siri because Apple isn’t willing to open up the system enough for 3rd party AI agents to get the same functionality.

Functionally the EU is requiring that Apple dramatically RELAX their privacy and security postures. I’m sure Apple doesn’t want to cave and give OpenAI free access to the spotlight semantic db, the ability see what’s on your screen at all times, etc.

Same as you wouldn't want every app to read your contacts or location. If we only had something to do that.

Re: Apple decided not to roll out Siri in EU after denied request for exemption

#283

Post by jsbisviewtiful »

afavour wrote: post #2

Apple said "hey, can we not comply with the law", the EU said no, so it didn't launch. Seems pretty straightforward to me. I can see why Apple might want to request an 18 month exemption, there's clearly extra work required to comply with EU regulations. But on the other hand it also feels like a straightforward play for consumer sympathy: let them get used to using it every day for 18 months, then pressure the EU to…

> But on the other hand it also feels like a straightforward play for consumer sympathy

100% - just like Apple making such a grandiose show of "privacy". "Privacy" for Apple eventually led to Apple specific and Apple-only allowed ads in first party apps and now Siri connecting to Google servers.

Re: Apple decided not to roll out Siri in EU after denied request for exemption

#284

Post by slopinthebag »

FinnKuhn wrote: post #183
slopinthebag wrote: post #169

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

Them making the only phones anyone uses makes them the gatekeepers on what people do on their phones -> Apple and Google are gatekeepers under the DMA. It doesn't matter how they became gatekeepers.

[flagged]

Re: Apple decided not to roll out Siri in EU after denied request for exemption

#285

Post by microtonal »

m3kw9 wrote: post #190
flumpcakes wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

EU has some of the best consumer protection and privacy laws on the planet.

Their laws are basically the equivalent of if there is no code, there are no bugs. EU laws forces citizens to get no new tech, privacy preserved.

Uhm no, EU privacy laws are actually pretty simple: do not collect data you don't need without asking consent from a user first.

Which should IMO be the basic principle worldwide. But unfortunately in many countries, companies are more powerful than governments/regulators, so they get to grab everything they can get their hands on.

Re: Apple decided not to roll out Siri in EU after denied request for exemption

#286

Post by simjnd »

MBCook wrote: post #278
simjnd wrote: post #164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think OP didn't question the privacy of their Private Cloud Compute, just Apple's bad faith: they claim they can't handoff data in a privacy-preserving way to 3rd-parties when they tout that they absolutely CAN handoff data in a privacy-preserving way to their servers. Apple frames this as a privacy issue when it's only a brand/control issue.

That’s right, they can hand it over to their servers. And they’ve got special agreements with Google to do the same exact thing. That preserves privacy. Is it possible to do that with absolutely any company that wants to be able to be the AI on your phone? Are most of those companies even capable of handling something like that? That’s thorny.

Yeah I overestimated the PID stripping that was being done on-device before being handed off to a server. After other comments I realize there needs to be a lot of plumbing on the server-side too.

Re: Apple decided not to roll out Siri in EU after denied request for exemption

#287

Post by nonethewiser »

stonegray wrote: post #232
a2128 wrote: post #8

In a circle of irony, reuters.com is denying my request to read the article about Apple deciding to deny rolling out Siri in EU due to being denied their request for an exemption to law Access Denied Our apologies, the content you requested cannot be accessed.

[this comment is not available to readers in the EU in compliance with EU law]

[this comment is not available to readers in the EU in compliance with EU law]

Re: Apple decided not to roll out Siri in EU after denied request for exemption

#288

Post by MBCook »

matthewfcarlson wrote: post #51
perlgeek wrote: post #28

Apple tries to market its product as privacy-focused, yet the privacy of their new AI features is so bad they don't meet EU standards? Is that the message here?

It's the inverse problem. EU wants anyone to be able to install a different AI agent onto their phone with the same access as Siri. Apple says "no- we need time to figure out how that would work, we want other agents to meet the same privacy standards of PCC/on-device that Siri uses". Which EU said no. I don't think there's a clear good guy/bad guy here.

Yep. Clash of priorities at a given time/deadline.

This one does not appear to be Apple being a dick, like they have been on the App Store and a number of other things.

Re: Apple decided not to roll out Siri in EU after denied request for exemption

#289

Post by 1123581321 »

dylan604 wrote: post #200
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If you knew the restrictions day one you’d be able to engineer the system to accommodate them This slows down deploying the system globally. Particularly if the target is moving, it may make sense to build lightly so one can pivot, and then build in the compliance stuff after you know you have a winning configuration. The EU has its laws. Apple has its strategy. The only thing I fault anyone on is the public bicker…

If Apple is so pro-privacy like they claim, then they'd look for the most strict international privacy laws and abide by them. Then they could feel safe in knowing they could release the product anywhere. The fact they want to make the product available under the "rules" of the least privacy protecting countries first says a lot to me

DMA is a not a privacy-oriented law.

Re: Apple decided not to roll out Siri in EU after denied request for exemption

#290

Post by MBCook »

microtonal wrote: post #250
4fterd4rk wrote: post #158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

EU wants people to be able to plug any model into the new Siri system that will have unlimited access to all of your messages, photos, what's on your screen, browsing history, etc. Apple says hey so we're going to need some time to figure out if we can do that in a way that won't completely fuck over our users. Very different than the narrative you're pushing

Apple Intelligence was announced at WWDC two years ago, they had plenty of time to work on interoperability. Besides that: access to all of your messages, photos, what's on your screen, browsing history, etc. Apple says hey so we're going to need some time to figure out if we can do that in a way that won't completely fuck over our users. The point is that if Apple's model gets all that access, they should give other…

> The point is that if Apple's model gets all that access, they should give others access to those APIs as well, otherwise they are giving themselves benefits over the competition

Yes. They SHOULD. So how did they do that without throwing away their privacy promise or running afoul of the privacy laws?

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