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Apple decided not to roll out Siri in EU after denied request for exemption

reuters.com

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Re: Apple decided not to roll out Siri in EU after denied request for exemption

#161

Post by concinds »

Does not address Apple’s specific allegation, that the EU demanded that competing AIs have direct systemwide access to all apps and data, while Apple wanted to add an intermediation layer which Siri or competitors would plug into, and which would force the same level of user visibility (a popup at the top) over any AI’s behavior.

I don’t know why the EU allowed Apple to intermediate other browser engines with BrowserEngineKit, which is unacceptable, while blocking it here where it is reasonable.

Re: Apple decided not to roll out Siri in EU after denied request for exemption

#162

Post by epolanski »

ErneX wrote: post #154
epolanski wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yet Gemini had no issues to comply with EU's DMA and release on all phones? Let's call it how it is: Android phones allow every competitor to run their chatbot in place of Gemini. Want Perplexity instead of Gemini? You can have it. Samsung launches with Perplexity as of late. Apple? As always, went into "ay mate, too integrated, can't give the same APIs to competitors" lame excuse.

Are you sure about that? https://www.business-standard.com/technology/tech-news/googl...

100%, it's been almost 2 years that you can choose whatever you want.[1]

I run Perplexity in place of Gemini, but I can also run Claude and others.

[1] https://i.imgur.com/BgvxqQQ.png

Apple is just being the usual Apple being both an hardware vendor and giving it's own software advantages that competitors don't have and using the security bogus argument as always.

And yet, people believe that crap and jump into defending Apple as if being an Apple user is their identity, sad.

Re: Apple decided not to roll out Siri in EU after denied request for exemption

#163

Post by JumpCrisscross »

rvnx wrote: post #130
krzyk wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why does systems are not designed take into account that compliance work?

Because of move fast and break things mentality. Let's say if ChatGPT was launched respecting GDPR, or respecting copyrights, they would have reached nowhere.

> Let's say if ChatGPT was launched respecting GDPR, or respecting copyrights

Bad comparison. Launching with GDPR compliance isn’t particularly taxing if you’re already complying with California’s CCPA. (You need your twenty-eight EU law firms on retainer, but the big firms package that conveniently.)

Copyright theft in AI, on the other hand, is a global phenomenon.

DMA is most akin to the U.S. system of designating financial institutions SIFIs and then putting a bunch of extra requirements on them. Almost intentionally onerous. Hence ringfenced to select large companies.

Re: Apple decided not to roll out Siri in EU after denied request for exemption

#164

Post by simjnd »

nozzlegear wrote: post #74
Jgoauh wrote: post #62

Interesting how the "groundbreaking Private Cloud Compute" cannot rollout due to privacy laws

Have you considered that the EU's privacy laws may simply be onerous and burdensome, and the fact that a web of red tape has caught another fly may not actually reflect on the privacy claims of "groundbreaking Private Cloud Compute"?

I think OP didn't question the privacy of their Private Cloud Compute, just Apple's bad faith: they claim they can't handoff data in a privacy-preserving way to 3rd-parties when they tout that they absolutely CAN handoff data in a privacy-preserving way to their servers.

Apple frames this as a privacy issue when it's only a brand/control issue.

Re: Apple decided not to roll out Siri in EU after denied request for exemption

#165

Post by necovek »

LurkandComment wrote: post #99
afavour wrote: post #2

Apple said "hey, can we not comply with the law", the EU said no, so it didn't launch. Seems pretty straightforward to me. I can see why Apple might want to request an 18 month exemption, there's clearly extra work required to comply with EU regulations. But on the other hand it also feels like a straightforward play for consumer sympathy: let them get used to using it every day for 18 months, then pressure the EU to…

[flagged]

It sounds like the work on the privacy layer was significant and to give "equal" access to other competing AI systems, they would need to include that "for free" as part of the platform. Or they could try to keep that as the moat for Siri AI, and only offer privacy "entry points" that other agents can tie into, but vendors would have to implement privacy preserving functions themselves.

This is the bit that's likely hard, because generally keeping safety and privacy guarantees as data flows through the system is extremely hard, and Apple would not be able to guarantee it for other products without large review investment.

But ultimately, they probably just do not want to do it until Siri AI gets a decent marketshare first, so competing agents would have to both build new solutions for the platform once open, but also deal with an incumbent dominant player already on people's phones.

Re: Apple decided not to roll out Siri in EU after denied request for exemption

#166

Post by yungookim »

aeontech wrote: post #89
gmueckl wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Throwing infinite money at engineering problems doesn't move deadlines arbitrarily. But Apple's position here is actually really wild: Apple claims to protect user privacy all the time. But they can't offer a product in a major jurisdiction that has actually meaningful privacy laws? Didn't they consider that while designing the product? This is quite the contradiction.

Lemma 1: you want to protect your users privacy, and are also beholden to regulation enforcing that commitment (GDPR). Lemma 2: you are obliged by other regulation to offer equal access to user data to third parties, so others can build equivalent functionality (DMA). Lemma 3: malicious third parties will absolutely try to abuse the access and trick the user into sharing their data by all means possible. You will be…

This is the smartest summary in the post

Re: Apple decided not to roll out Siri in EU after denied request for exemption

#167

Post by ErneX »

epolanski wrote: post #162
ErneX wrote: post #154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you sure about that? https://www.business-standard.com/technology/tech-news/googl...

100%, it's been almost 2 years that you can choose whatever you want.[1] I run Perplexity in place of Gemini, but I can also run Claude and others. [1] https://i.imgur.com/BgvxqQQ.png Apple is just being the usual Apple being both an hardware vendor and giving it's own software advantages that competitors don't have and using the security bogus argument as always. And yet, people believe that crap and jump into defen…

But read the article, the EU wants even tighter integration for third parties, so it’s not exactly like Google is out of the woods regarding the DMA and this.

Re: Apple decided not to roll out Siri in EU after denied request for exemption

#168

Post by necovek »

spullara wrote: post #153
necovek wrote: post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Letting a US company (under jurisdiction of, say, US Cloud Act, but also unknown administration orders that might come) strictly control the phone for a privacy focused EU citizen (or more broadly, non-US citizen) seems super dangerous. The requirements are not onerous, it is the basic preemption of monopolist behavior. Qualifying "random apps" is something that is a true challenge, but that holds regardless of the A…

I am perfectly ok with EU having different rules of their own but they also can't be upset when features aren't offered there. That is the trade-off they have chosen and I am ok with it.

People in EU are upset that Apple is saying that EU would not let them build it, not that it's not offered there.

Re: Apple decided not to roll out Siri in EU after denied request for exemption

#169

Post by slopinthebag »

FinnKuhn wrote: post #128
slopinthebag wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are phones running alternative versions of Android with no google dependency, and there are phones running linux. Furthermore, if we lived in a world where the two main OS's were locked down to an insane degree, we would also have plenty of alternative operating systems. The reason we don't today is because we don't really have a need for it, in the same way linux has a monopoly on servers and nobody really car…

> There are phones running alternative versions of Android with no google dependency, and there are phones running linux. Those make up 0% of the market [1], which classifies Apple and Google as gatekeepers. [1] https://gs.statcounter.com/os-market-share/mobile/europe/

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Re: Apple decided not to roll out Siri in EU after denied request for exemption

#170

Post by [deleted] »

jwr wrote: post #110

What does it even mean to "roll out in EU"? These concepts are so outdated it's not even funny. Let's say I have several citizenships, live mostly in the EU, but currently stay in Japan, do I get the features or not? Like app store regional gating and DVD regions, these restrictions are dinosaurs of the past.

[deleted]
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