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Ghostty is leaving GitHub

mitchellh.com

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Re: Ghostty is leaving GitHub

#281

Post by znpy »

thinkingtoilet wrote: post #177
_doctor_love wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> insider perspective on this I do not work at MSFT but I don't feel that I need insider perspective to understand what's going on. GitHub is being managed the way other services get managed once they're bought by big companies. Initially fine, then starts to decline, then eventually craters. Everything becomes the numbers game. Microsoft, Oracle, VMware, CA (where software goes to die), Salesforce, the list goes on.…

This is a general observation, no hard data, but I find there seems to be a wall at 2 years after an acquisition. By 2 years a lot of the best talent leave the company entirely or go somewhere else in the company. Things can cruise along just fine for a bit, but as the institutional knowledge slowly leaves it gets worse and worse. Couple that with the bureaucracy and insanity of a global mega-corporation, the quality…

> but as the institutional knowledge slowly leaves

I’d like to offer a different perspective: the “institutional knowledge” often (but not always, of course) are the old timers that have been gatekeeping knowledge in order to make themselves irreplaceable.

I’ve seen this a couple of times, even in faang-sized companies.

I’m not sure this is the case of GitHub though.

It might be due to lower quality code spit out by some llm, reviewed by some llm and shipped to production by some llm-generated pipeline.

Also, wasn’t github pushed to move to azure?

Anyways, it surely is a strong signal of engineering culture degrading.

Re: Ghostty is leaving GitHub

#282

Post by Avamander »

artyom wrote: post #277
nimbius wrote: post #163

>It’s not a fun place for me to be anymore. I want to be there but it doesn't want me to be there. I want to get work done and it doesn't want me to get work done. I want to ship software and it doesn't want me to ship software. Has anyone else shared this sentiment? If so Redmond needs to lean in hard. this is an absolute killing blow for Microsoft if it gains real traction. You made developers your cornerstone eigh…

> Youve lost the OS, and the server realm. Lose the developers, and youre on your way to becoming the Xerox of the 21st century. This is a very HN take. MS is terrible or at best "second tier" on everything they do including gaming, they also lost the mobile race, they're very likely going to lose the AI race, but they'll still hold hostage of the vast swathes of average white collar workers with Office, people that…

> but they'll still hold hostage of the vast swathes of average white collar workers with Office, people that don't care at all about technology as long as they have Word and Excel.

I can't wait for the anti-trust lawsuits. M365 and O365 are already super shady in terms of being able to migrate out or be interoperable with other solutions. "Accidental" roadblocks almost everywhere.

Re: Ghostty is leaving GitHub

#283

Post by nicr_22 »

palata wrote: post #153
DrammBA wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can feel the frustation, nothing dramatic about expressing it This quote from the post resonated with me: > I want to get work done and it doesn't want me to get work done. I want to ship software and it doesn't want me to ship software. The sentiment is shared, and github is not the only service making me feel like that, it feels like everything on the web is more flimsy and low quality nowadays. Constant outages,…

> I can feel the frustation, nothing dramatic about expressing it I think the "ridiculously dramatic" part is the whole love letter to GitHub, not the frustration. And I think it is fair to say that it is ridiculously dramatic. Which is okay, of course, I'm not criticising here. Just like it would feel ridiculously dramatic (at least to me) if someone explained that they cried today when they stopped their subscripti…

The difference here is _creative_ work vs consumption. Craftspeople like Mitchell feel passionately about the tools they rely on to build. Github has also been a social place for builders.

I don't think it's ridiculously dramatic to feel sad about great tools rusting or makerspaces closing...

Re: Ghostty is leaving GitHub

#284

Post by hmokiguess »

> I know I work at GitHub so that might sound heretical, but I promise it’s not controversial for me to say it. Very few people internally believe that PRs and issues are ideal primitives for the future of engineering. And there are a lots of us inside the machine exploring what comes next.

From GitHub's Staff Research Engineer https://maggieappleton.com/zero-alignment/

Re: Ghostty is leaving GitHub

#285

Post by farfatched »

There's clearly opportunity for a GitHub replacement that can operate reliably at scale.

I support Forgejo and Codeberg, but it's not clear that its architecture can scale to GitHub levels.

Microsoft subsidises a lot of OSS development. Who has equally big pockets?

Re: Ghostty is leaving GitHub

#287

Post by znpy »

atonse wrote: post #22

During one of the x threads where Mitchell was (legitimately) complaining about Github, there were a couple replies suggesting that GitHub should hire him to be their CEO. And I remember seeing that and thinking "huh... not at all a bad idea." There is a specific kind of leader that can turn such ships around, and they are strong in their convictions, and aren't just "managers", but visionaries coupled with strong ex…

Gitlab is pretty cool to be honest, and it’s generally underrated.

Re: Ghostty is leaving GitHub

#288

Post by idan »

Lammy wrote: post #274
idan wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hi there! Longtime fan and hubber here. It's okay to have emotions. I have similar emotions. I'm GitHub User 22723 which is effectively the same as you (considering there's ~180m GH accounts nowadays) My version of your post reads differently: "GitHub only gets better if people who give a shit stick around to make it better" Walking away would be easy. I felt that way when I left Heroku ~six years ago. I left that jo…

> In the past few years, GitHub has absorbed both a fundamental paradigm shift (agentic coding) AND several different hockey sticks of growth. It's messy. I'm not always proud of the results or the product choices we are forced into. Excellent example of why centralization is a bad thing. A Git “hub” is not a thing that should have ever existed for a self-described “distributed” version control system.

Shrug

Nothing prevents usage of GH in a decentralized fashion. There's nothing magical about git remotes. Just add some more, figure out a process that works for you, have fun!

In reality: when I want to send a letter I don't want to figure out a process from scratch. I want to go to the local post office, buy a stamp, and post a letter.

Convenience is a spectrum and different people land in different spots. What irks me is when I lack the choice. And that's not the case here.

Re: Ghostty is leaving GitHub

#289

Post by toastal »

mamcx wrote: post #149
atonse wrote: post #22

During one of the x threads where Mitchell was (legitimately) complaining about Github, there were a couple replies suggesting that GitHub should hire him to be their CEO. And I remember seeing that and thinking "huh... not at all a bad idea." There is a specific kind of leader that can turn such ships around, and they are strong in their convictions, and aren't just "managers", but visionaries coupled with strong ex…

The problem is that Github does a lot . However, I consider that there is still not a great UI for the core service, in special for a complex project. In the other hand, I bet jujutsu has the best basic take, and is still missing a good forge.

Xit has a better “take” on Git. Pijul & Darcs still have better fundamentals.

Re: Ghostty is leaving GitHub

#290

Post by noir_lord »

infogulch wrote: post #262

I'm happy that raw git + mailing lists works great for the linux project, but can the rest of us all agree we actually do need issues & PRs? And that it's super painful to lose all this context when platform hopping, or when the service unilaterally decides to deplatform someone? So where are we going? Mitchell will be deciding for Ghostty. If github's current trajectory is anything to go by, everyone else will need…

There will be disruption as people move to various platforms and then one will “win” by a small amount which will self reenforce until we have a new GH and the pattern will likely repeat.

Companies will keep using GH for a long time because they seem to be really tolerant of outages (and have a massive switching cost depending on how much of GitHub they use outside of git).

Smaller teams/solo devs much less so.

Isn’t really anyway to coordinate it ahead of time, it’s more an emergent bottom up thing than a “all devs agree to move to X” ahead of time.

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