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Employers use your personal data to figure out the lowest salary you'll accept

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Re: Employers use your personal data to figure out the lowest salary you'll accept

#281
post #277

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Work Number by Experian gives all past income information. I think many (most?) companies participate in it, so it's somewhat likely your current income is being reported.

See also sibling comment, the Big Three offer free annual credit reports through https://www.annualcreditreport.com/index.action but I haven't seen work history included. I believe that they do collect & report on this information, but I have been unable to get them to share it with me.

The Big Three have many non-credit-report products, and no they will not share them with the reports' subjects (you and I).

Re: Employers use your personal data to figure out the lowest salary you'll accept

#282

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> remotely comparable If it's publicly traded, the company's financial situation is laid bare. Nobody is obliged to accept a lowball offer, either.

A public company’s overall situation is laid bare. Unless you’re pretty close to the C suite, it has little to no relevance on your salary negotiation. As we’ve seen time and again this year, highly profitable companies will often lay off workers. So the overall health of a company has little to do with how much it necessarily values employees. And the tech industry has a record of both using machine learning to skir…

> illegally colluding to suppress wages

This was exposed because the colluders were cheating on their agreements with each other. That's the perennial problem with colluding - there is no enforcement of it. That's why cartels are unstable.

> lowball

When you enter a negotiation, you are always going to get a lowball offer. That's why it's a negotiation. There are many resources on how to negotiate. It's worth your while (literally) to study them.

> So the overall health of a company has little to do with how much it necessarily values employees.

Employees are valued according to the value they contribute to the company. Not the profits or losses to the company.

Companies are not a jobs program, nor a social welfare organization, nor one's parents. The only thing a company owes you is what the terms of the contract you signed with them says they owe you.

A company exists to make money for its owners. The employees are hired because they produce value in excess of what they cost.

Re: Employers use your personal data to figure out the lowest salary you'll accept

#283
post #176
post #150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Have a look at german Schufa company. I was there pre RGPD, so maybe things have changed.

This is "only" used for loans and renting, the German government is never going to query the score this company has assigned you. Social services are never impacted. Equifax on the other hand claims: > Social Services - When government agencies can't verify your information, you may have to wait longer to start receiving benefits.

The German government probably actually knows who all of its citizens are.

Re: Employers use your personal data to figure out the lowest salary you'll accept

#284
post #271
post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am technically in the upper class based on income and place of residence. I drive an 11 year old vehicle, wear inexpensive clothes (often plain tees), eat out infrequently, etc. I unintentionally spend more in areas that tend not to be obvious to non-friends. I'd be upset if people could easily lookup my income.

Yes, you are very exceptional. A well-paid employee (or former employee) who lives somewhere nice, dresses like they are in college and drives a beat-up Civic and hopefully saves all his money, I can close my eyes, spin around, throw a rock, and have 20/80 odds of hitting someone who matches that exact description in this town. But yes, it's possible you are sufficiently outside the grain that you don't have any obvi…

You failed to understand the intent of my self-description. I don't care about whether I'm exceptional, unique, or how many people there are matching my description where anyone lives. I only care that my income isn't publicly known and that it is not easily derived from my appearance or behavior, because it would change the nature of my relationships. I know of people who've had relationship problems with salary disclosure via OpenTheBooks etc.

Re: Employers use your personal data to figure out the lowest salary you'll accept

#285
post #254

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Clearly poor communication on my end; I was joking about the billion dollars. My bad. No worries, I'm pretty bad at being able to recognize humor over text even when it's done well, so I legitimately can't tell the difference between whether it's on my end or yours! And if it is on your end, it's certainly still a more palatable character trait than the amount of ego needed to say it seriously.

It is genuinely hard for me to say anything completely seriously and without an abundance of sarcasm. My therapist says it might be an avoidance mechanism that I devised as a kid in order to avoid confronting serious topics. There probably is some truth to that, and it can understandably come off as me not listening or being mindful to things people say to me because they think I'm blowing it off, even when it's more…

I can definitely relate to that to a certain extent. My (mistaken) inference that you were serious probably was because so much of the comment before that did seem genuinely thoughtful to me, so I assumed that maybe all of it was intended to be. If anything, it sounds like maybe holding off on the sarcasm for so long forced you to have to make a quip near the end (or I just missed more of the sarcasm earlier).

Re: Employers use your personal data to figure out the lowest salary you'll accept

#286

Many years ago, back when companies could ask for your previous compensation [0], a hiring manager once said to me "don't ever lie about your past compensation". I wasn't sure how they could figure this out at the time until someone later pointed out that many corporations do a credit history check on you as part of the background check. This gives them access to past compensation. The information asymmetry here is,…

The information asymmetry is sort of wild to me. I can't really figure out an angle why this isn't bad for the same reasons insider trader is bad. I'm even okay with them having the info, I just think companies should be required to publish everyone's salaries. Redacting names is fine, but I should be able to look up the team I would join and see titles and salaries for everyone on the team.

Re: Employers use your personal data to figure out the lowest salary you'll accept

#287
post #285

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is genuinely hard for me to say anything completely seriously and without an abundance of sarcasm. My therapist says it might be an avoidance mechanism that I devised as a kid in order to avoid confronting serious topics. There probably is some truth to that, and it can understandably come off as me not listening or being mindful to things people say to me because they think I'm blowing it off, even when it's more…

I can definitely relate to that to a certain extent. My (mistaken) inference that you were serious probably was because so much of the comment before that did seem genuinely thoughtful to me, so I assumed that maybe all of it was intended to be. If anything, it sounds like maybe holding off on the sarcasm for so long forced you to have to make a quip near the end (or I just missed more of the sarcasm earlier).

You pretty much got it.

It's more obvious in verbal communication because of course it would be easy to tell by the tone of my voice that I'm being sarcastic.

Re: Employers use your personal data to figure out the lowest salary you'll accept

#288

You can tell them your past compensation, and if they dig in and you signed an agreement, tell them it included bonuses. Don't tell how much of your salary was compensation vs bonus.

vs stock grants.

Re: Employers use your personal data to figure out the lowest salary you'll accept

#289

One (more) thing to opt out of: Freeze Your Data - The Work Number https://employees.theworknumber.com/employee-data-freeze As I understand it, payroll whores your salary out to Equifax*, who then pimps it to others * Yeah, that one: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2017_Equifax_data_breach

The "best" part of the "The Work Number" is your employer can opt you in without any notification. The last time I worked for someone else's company, I specifically asked before I started if they shared my salary info with any credit agencies. The HR rep: "No we do not!" Guess what? They, or likely their payroll provider (ADP?) did.

I am now a partner in a consultancy. Despite my prior comments, we have still not yet gotten off Gusto. Pasted from a July 2024 e-mail Gusto sent me:

  We are making updates to our Payroll Terms of Service to address relevant laws and regulations and include information about new products and features, including our new employment and income verification feature. The updated terms will go into effect for current customers on July 31, 2024. 

  You can review the full updated terms here.

  The new employment and income verification feature

  When your employees apply for loans, credit cards, or public aid they may be required to provide proof of employment and income and, as the employer, you often need to manually provide verifications during the approval process. With this update, you can save time and help your employees get faster access by automating employment and income verifications through our new partnership with The Work Number®. 

  No action is needed from you. This benefit is included in your current Gusto payroll subscription and there are no additional fees. As the employer, you can choose to turn off this new feature in the Settings tab at any time. The feature will be available on July 31, 2024. Learn more >

  Thank you for choosing Gusto!
So my team, none of whom were ever explicitly asked for their consent to share their salary info, were about to have Gusto helpfully share it for them. Thanks Gusto!

I (angrily) opted my company out, but I'm probably the only partner in the company who would have gone out of their way to do that.

Re: Employers use your personal data to figure out the lowest salary you'll accept

#290

You can tell them your past compensation, and if they dig in and you signed an agreement, tell them it included bonuses. Don't tell how much of your salary was compensation vs bonus.

And claim large bonuses were handed over as cash? Because payroll software like ADP sells employees' compensation data
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