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Employers use your personal data to figure out the lowest salary you'll accept

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Re: Employers use your personal data to figure out the lowest salary you'll accept

#91

Post by WalterBright »

tombert wrote: post #50
WalterBright wrote: post #9

When I apply for a job, I use data to figure out the highest salary the company will accept.

When I've applied for jobs and done salary negotiations, I try pretty hard to find out the max I can get using as many variables that I think are relevant (e.g. years of experience, previous companies I've worked for, projects I've contributed to, etc). No one is writing an article trying to expose me for this. I think the concern is how invasive they can be when doing this. It's one thing to quickly search your name…

> remotely comparable

If it's publicly traded, the company's financial situation is laid bare.

Nobody is obliged to accept a lowball offer, either.

Re: Employers use your personal data to figure out the lowest salary you'll accept

#92

Post by anal_reactor »

Snild wrote: post #77

What a hassle! Here in Sweden, your tax filings are public information; companies can just ask the government what you made last year. I have no idea if they actually do, though, and the data will be somewhat obfuscated if you have extra income on the side.

I earn like €100k per year. Not a huge salary, but definitely above average. My family lives in Eastern Europe. Once I was hanging out with my cousin and his friends, all of these people had minimum-wage jobs. Not really my type of social circle, but I have no issues being cool for an evening. Then suddenly my cousin drinks one too many and starts blabbering about how "fucking rich" I am and all eyes turn to me because guess what the whole group smelled an opportunity. Never spent time with them again.

I assume such situations occur often in Sweden where it's really awkward if you want to hang out with a crowd from lower social class because they know your earnings.

Re: Employers use your personal data to figure out the lowest salary you'll accept

#93

Post by mykowebhn »

tombert wrote: post #85
mykowebhn wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Forgive me for saying this, but I think you may be drinking too much of the kool-aid. If some of your projects are monetizable, couldn't you move forward without VC help? Perhaps related, why do you need to be worth billions of dollars? I feel your visions for what you want your future self to be are highly unrealistic and you're probably setting yourself up for a lot of disappointment and unhappiness. Sorry for the…

I was being a bit joking and hyperbolic about the billion dollars, though obviously that wasn’t communicated clearly. I don’t really need a billion dollars. I don’t think anything I have right now is very monetizable; most of the fun stuff I work on now ends up being formal methods stuff, which is cool but hard to make any money with. I guess what I was saying is that I think I am ultimately think I am too cowardly t…

Ah, okay. I didn't realize that. My bad!

Re: Employers use your personal data to figure out the lowest salary you'll accept

#94

Post by vkou »

Ferret7446 wrote: post #25
canpan wrote: post #8

I wonder if the winning game becomes your own boss and tiny companies. I want to do the jump, but lack of courage, good ideas, sales skills and a very good salary still holding me back (open for suggestions). But if the very good salary would go away, the scales tip instantly.

That was always the "winning game". Only problem is that's a lot of work. The more things change, the more they stay the same; if you want more money, work harder. People who don't want to work harder complain that other people make more money because they either don't understand or are in denial about the amount of work the people they envy put in. Yes there are exceptions. No pointing out exceptions won't help you,…

> People who don't want to work harder complain that other people make more money because they either don't understand or are in denial about the amount of work the people they envy put in.

I assure you, I have never in my life worked 20 times harder than someone making minimum wage.

Re: Employers use your personal data to figure out the lowest salary you'll accept

#95

Post by vkou »

anal_reactor wrote: post #92
Snild wrote: post #77

What a hassle! Here in Sweden, your tax filings are public information; companies can just ask the government what you made last year. I have no idea if they actually do, though, and the data will be somewhat obfuscated if you have extra income on the side.

I earn like €100k per year. Not a huge salary, but definitely above average. My family lives in Eastern Europe. Once I was hanging out with my cousin and his friends, all of these people had minimum-wage jobs. Not really my type of social circle, but I have no issues being cool for an evening. Then suddenly my cousin drinks one too many and starts blabbering about how "fucking rich" I am and all eyes turn to me becau…

> I assume such situations occur often in Sweden where it's really awkward if you want to hang out with a crowd from lower social class because they know your earnings.

You don't have to be in Sweden to have a pretty good idea within a few minutes of talking to someone, of what the ballpark for their earnings is.

Your social class is written all over your face, your clothes, your manners, your manner of speaking, the company you keep, the hobbies you have, where and how you spend your time...

Re: Employers use your personal data to figure out the lowest salary you'll accept

#96

Post by brikym »

Snild wrote: post #77

What a hassle! Here in Sweden, your tax filings are public information; companies can just ask the government what you made last year. I have no idea if they actually do, though, and the data will be somewhat obfuscated if you have extra income on the side.

But is the income data is also available to individuals? If I can find out the income of another professional in a similar role that becomes the anchoring point. Otherwise the company will just offer {prev_year_income} + peanuts.

Re: Employers use your personal data to figure out the lowest salary you'll accept

#97

Post by miek »

vkou wrote: post #95
anal_reactor wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I earn like €100k per year. Not a huge salary, but definitely above average. My family lives in Eastern Europe. Once I was hanging out with my cousin and his friends, all of these people had minimum-wage jobs. Not really my type of social circle, but I have no issues being cool for an evening. Then suddenly my cousin drinks one too many and starts blabbering about how "fucking rich" I am and all eyes turn to me becau…

> I assume such situations occur often in Sweden where it's really awkward if you want to hang out with a crowd from lower social class because they know your earnings. You don't have to be in Sweden to have a pretty good idea within a few minutes of talking to someone, of what the ballpark for their earnings is. Your social class is written all over your face, your clothes, your manners, your manner of speaking, the…

I am technically in the upper class based on income and place of residence. I drive an 11 year old vehicle, wear inexpensive clothes (often plain tees), eat out infrequently, etc. I unintentionally spend more in areas that tend not to be obvious to non-friends. I'd be upset if people could easily lookup my income.

Re: Employers use your personal data to figure out the lowest salary you'll accept

#98

Post by shrubby »

Unbeliever69 wrote: post #55
canpan wrote: post #8

I wonder if the winning game becomes your own boss and tiny companies. I want to do the jump, but lack of courage, good ideas, sales skills and a very good salary still holding me back (open for suggestions). But if the very good salary would go away, the scales tip instantly.

Probably not the answer you want to here but I'll share my perspective. Three years ago my wife and I sat down and optimized our finances so I could soft-retire and focus on a few of my life goals while simultaneously working on ways to generate income without the stress of being in the employ of others. It was tough work which mainly involved paying down a lot of debt so we can live more lean. We did a lot of optimi…

Wonder what you'd do with your passion in a just world where everything of creativity (okay almost) would not need to be turned into a income.

I feel this fucking form of slavery as well hard.

How sorry can life be?

Re: Employers use your personal data to figure out the lowest salary you'll accept

#99

Post by Snild »

anal_reactor wrote: post #92
Snild wrote: post #77

What a hassle! Here in Sweden, your tax filings are public information; companies can just ask the government what you made last year. I have no idea if they actually do, though, and the data will be somewhat obfuscated if you have extra income on the side.

I earn like €100k per year. Not a huge salary, but definitely above average. My family lives in Eastern Europe. Once I was hanging out with my cousin and his friends, all of these people had minimum-wage jobs. Not really my type of social circle, but I have no issues being cool for an evening. Then suddenly my cousin drinks one too many and starts blabbering about how "fucking rich" I am and all eyes turn to me becau…

I've never had a problem like that. People don't bother looking it up -- probably because your socioeconomic class is apparent anyway from e.g. the area you live in. AFAIK, the only ones who have ever looked mine up are banks, when I was applying for mortgages.

Re: Employers use your personal data to figure out the lowest salary you'll accept

#100

Post by laserlight »

roenxi wrote: post #63
darth_avocado wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You might want to rethink your example if the counterparty offers you 50% more than you wanted then you reject the deal I rejected the deal because I got even more elsewhere. My framing still stands. In a case when only one employer has the information, sure they’re better served by offering me more money. But in an environment where all of them have the information, this no longer is a problem. At a system level,…

But if Meta wanted to hire you and had perfect information, it sounds like they'd discover they needed to offer you salaries in the $350-400k range? That sounds like it might be good for you. The story you seem to have told is they just wasted time low-balling you because they didn't have enough information to offer a competitive salary. You weren't ever going to settle for $250k, they didn't have enough leverage and…

> they'd discover they needed to offer you salaries in the $350-400k range?

No, such a discovery wouldn't be possible, because nobody would pay that amount to someone who was willing to accept $200K.

> They're locked in an auction and the market price for your time is nowhere near $200k.

There is no magical market price that exists outside the market dynamics. When bidders know that one's current salary is $150K, their willingness to offer higher salaries will diminish accordingly.

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