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Artemis computer running two instances of MS outlook; they can't figure out why

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Re: Artemis computer running two instances of MS outlook; they can't figure out why

#281

Post by starkparker »

starkparker wrote: post #276

https://www.businessinsider.com/artemis-astronauts-microsoft... > After Wiseman flagged the issue, Mission Control said it could remotely access his system with permission. > Soon after, a member of Mission Control said, "We wanted to let Reid know we are done remoting into his PCD 1." They added that the issue had been resolved and that the system would appear offline, as "expected." > The personal computing device,…

Notably, it looks like it came down to the Surface Pro and Dell XPS 15, and part of the reason why the Surface won was "significantly more particulate and quantities of toxic gases" emitted by the XPS's larger battery in the worst-case scenario of a battery fire: https://ntrs.nasa.gov/api/citations/20210013869/downloads/20...

> The six key test configurations are shown in Table D-2. A ¼-scale OSEF was used in place of a full-scale unit. Performance results were assessed accordingly. The Orion Program is considering flying one of two different laptop models, a Surface Pro or a Dell XPS 15. Both were tested during this test series. Sealed and unsealed OFC prefilters also were tested.

...

> Testing revealed that the rise in temperature is directly related to the number of cells ignited. Maximum temperature rise inside the CBA during a Dell XPS 15 fire was 22 °F. The maximum temperature rise inside the CBA during a Surface Pro fire was 7 °F. Figure D-13 shows the relative temperature rises for several tests.

...

> - When larger numbers of laptop cells were ignited, higher concentrations of toxic gases, increased particulate densities, and greater production of thermal energy were observed.

> - The larger the number of laptop battery cells ignited, the more likely the ammonia concentration was to reach levels capable of potentially poisoning the OSEF CO oxidation catalyst.

Re: Artemis computer running two instances of MS outlook; they can't figure out why

#282

Post by NitpickLawyer »

workfromspace wrote: post #128
EvanAnderson wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Coordinating time-zone issues between remote meeting participants on a single celestial body is complex enough. >smile<

That gives me so many questions: Should there be a non-Earth timezone? How do you define a "day" in space? Is there a day light saving in space? At least they are not travelling near the speed of light. That's a whole different can of worms.

> At least they are not travelling near the speed of light. That's a whole different can of worms.

Oh, they're building software and hardware for this anyway. The differences between earth clocks and moon clocks (CotS) would lead to large errors if you were to calculate distances. There was an article about this a while ago. Fascinating stuff.

Re: Artemis computer running two instances of MS outlook; they can't figure out why

#283

Post by kube-system »

mmooss wrote: post #279
kube-system wrote: post #278

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They’re not looking for a science fair project, it’s a production piece of IT equipment. Adding a bunch of bespoke equipment is an unnecessary risk when a well understood off the shelf product fits the bill. It’s just office equipment for doing basic computer tasks. A laptop is appropriate.

Much production IT equipment in industrial and many other settings is what I described. It's a mature, commonplace form factor. It's in cars (without keyboards), control rooms, server racks ... That said, I don't know why they use laptops, and it doesn't look like you do either.

I’m not making things up. Much has been written about the use of PC on spacecraft. As it turns out, PCs make good PCs:

https://gizmodo.com/how-astronauts-use-laptops-on-the-intern...

https://web.archive.org/web/20160526014418/https://www.techr...

Re: Artemis computer running two instances of MS outlook; they can't figure out why

#284

Post by notorandit »

The point is not running Windows or Outlook on a PC in space. The point is that the Software was not sealed, downloading upgrades while in space, sending telemetry back to Microsoft (or to whoever else). Those PC are like any other instrument onboard the spacecraft: it's status needs to be known and predictable by NASA.

Not to talk about the amount of unknown and unpredictable extra traffic caused by those PCs onto the "space internet links" which can easily clog any other communication.

And not to talk about smartphones.

This is actually rocket (and space) science, not the horse market fair!

Re: Artemis computer running two instances of MS outlook; they can't figure out why

#285

Post by nbernard »

malfist wrote: post #262
marcosdumay wrote: post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You'd want fetchmail with some local server. And if you are going with some local server, the Exchange/Outlook family is just the worst possible option. Those people already have enough stuff to maintain up there, they don't need something that require in-house expert admins.

Like a fetchmail admin?

The point is that fetchmail doesn't need an admin once it is configured.

Re: Artemis computer running two instances of MS outlook; they can't figure out why

#286

Post by hunterpayne »

burnt-resistor wrote: post #70
ryandrake wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Everything is terrifying in computing these days, and bringing it to space rockets makes it even more terrifying.

I think we need to mandate intentionally slower, sandboxed, and resource-constrained development environments/containers so developers are unable to abuse resources like they're "free" and in so using wasteful and improper algorithms to expand to fill the volume of the container (RAM, CPU, IOPS, storage capacity, and network bandwidth and latency) like an ideal gas. Lazy coding and excessive abstractions on top of VM…

So a web app then?

Re: Artemis computer running two instances of MS outlook; they can't figure out why

#288

Post by shrubble »

wil421 wrote: post #234
b3orn wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Probably not possible. Their Wi-Fi access point is inside the capsule, the capsule is made from metal and probably shielding the signal somewhat. Maybe even quite a lot if it's intended to provide some radiation shielding. Also it's low power as it only needs to work inside the capsule, at the given distances signal attenuation will make it almost impossible to pick up anything.

What’s the NROs take on capturing the signal from the ground? They already have it from a satellite in space.

If it’s broadcasting then you can pick it up, is my understanding of US law. Hopefully they’re using a secured access point and SSL :-)

Re: Artemis computer running two instances of MS outlook; they can't figure out why

#289

Post by KetoManx64 »

dugite-code wrote: post #253
charlieboardman wrote: post #233

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If they have stock outlook they are doing normal networking and are connected to the normal internet over some deep-space antenna setup. So why not just use Debian and gmail in the browser if you want easy? The ISS uses Debian. I can't believe it's too hard to get astronauts to open Firefox

The browser would be far too slow for practical use. Local fist software, which ironically outlook is, would be the way to go.

Does the modern PWA-based outlook even support offline access? I know the old outlook that is no longer being updated does.

Re: Artemis computer running two instances of MS outlook; they can't figure out why

#290

Post by anon291 »

It's insane to me that microsoft licensing for large companies and mission-critical systems operators doesn't include a stripped down version of windows that really just provides the NT kernel and window system. Why on earth is MS telemetry running in space LOL
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