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The American Healthcare Conundrum

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Re: The American Healthcare Conundrum

#281

Post by kart23 »

programmertote wrote: post #121
qwertyuiop_ wrote: post #98

Its called American Medical Association racket.

Agreed. As a spouse of a specialist doctor in the US, average folks don't include doctors when they blame the exorbitant prices of the US healthcare. Sure, big pharma, insurance companies, hospital admins and everyone in between play a part in this big profit-making machine. But doctors (a lot of them, not all) are complicit in this healthcare complex. American Medical Association is one of the top lobbying groups in…

I agree. congress actually caps the number of residency slots, which is agreed by many to be the ultimate bottleneck for the amount of doctors produced each year. There are plenty of people willing and well-qualified to go through medical school and become a doctor.

https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC12256077/

Re: The American Healthcare Conundrum

#282

Post by socalgal2 »

This might be rigth but I don't get a lot of confidence from the start comparing Japan's lifespans to the USAs and implying it's because of health care

Japanese, as a whole, have a vastly different diet than the average USAian. As a whole, they are far less obese, eat far less diary products, over eat less, eat less meat, etc... Again, not saying that's the reason but it's a possibility. USA = 2500 calories a day. Japan = 2000 calories a day. Japan = 3% obese. USA = 33% obese.

Next up is exercise. Sure, lots of people in the country live in rural areas and drive a car. But some large portion of the population does the majority of their commuting and shopping by walk/bus/train/bicycle. That means that on average, Japanese get more far more exercise than the average USAian. Japan gets ~25% more exercise on average

I'd suspect these 2 (3)? are the major reason Japanes live longer. (1) they get more exercise (2a) they don't over eat (2b) they eat healther foods.

Anyway, the point is, the post should arguably not be putting such a specious statement at the top. It suggests the rest is probably just as specious

Re: The American Healthcare Conundrum

#283

Post by [deleted] »

sneak wrote: post #275
dyauspitr wrote: post #273

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s what all of Asia does and it’s very effective. Make people’s weight their primary problem until they resolve it. It’s not like it is some unchangeable attribute that can’t be fixed through self control and discipline. The shaming is just unsolicited motivation that works. I feel sad if people are made fun of for attributes they can’t change.

If everyone could control their weight via simply willing themselves to have more self-control, then nobody would be fat. Self-control is, ironically, not usually within one’s self control. Most people don’t contemplate very deeply about the gap between their will and their behavior. I’m extremely focused on self-determination and it’s absolutely astounding (and irritating) to me how little control I have over my act…

[deleted]

Re: The American Healthcare Conundrum

#284

Post by Jensson »

danny_codes wrote: post #268
rybosworld wrote: post #72

For a country that prides itself on CapItAlIsM, U.S. healthcare is the farthest thing from it. - Doctors and hospitals don't compete on price - Prices aren't just opaque, they are unknowable - Shopping around is not possible - Insurer incentive is to maximize billing (cost). They pass along cost as increased premiums to an employer. Employer passes along increased costs to employee as below-inflation wage increases

Capitalism doesn’t work well for goods with inelastic demand. Every other developed country understands this and has a nationalized system. The only reason we don’t have universal healthcare is basically unlucky flukes.

> The only reason we don’t have universal healthcare is basically unlucky flukes.

You think its a fluke and not intentional corruption of the system? These companies pays both parties a lot so nobody will ever fix this, that isn't a fluke that is just plain old corruption.

Re: The American Healthcare Conundrum

#285

Post by Jensson »

legitster wrote: post #82

If you ever want to "sanewash" healthcare spending in the US, this random guy stood up an entire website to argue that per-capita healthcare spending in the US is more or less in line with expectations based on per-capita income: https://randomcriticalanalysis.com/why-conventional-wisdom-o... TL;DR: As people/countries get richer, a larger share of their money goes towards consumption. It's not just that Americans pa…

But USA isn't the richest country on earth yet why do they spend the most?

Edit: I recognize that post now, he uses a special metric "actual individual consumption", which adds healthcare consumed by people as income. So the more expensive healthcare is, the more "actual individual consumption" you will have in the country. That is not the normal GDP metric, but using that special metric USA is on top since healthcare consumed there is so expensive.

Re: The American Healthcare Conundrum

#286

Post by bspammer »

twoodfin wrote: post #137
ipsento606 wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> ACA enshrined the worst parts of the American healthcare system for years to come before the ACA, insurers could deny coverage for pre-existing conditions people have forgotten how bad things used to be

Why is that inherently bad? Should I be able to buy fire insurance on pre-existing embers?

Because people aren’t objects.

Re: The American Healthcare Conundrum

#287

Post by TrackerFF »

Healthcare can only get you so long, if we're looking at life expectancy

If you're less active, eat worse, throwing more money at fixing the symptoms will not fix the underlying problem.

Not saying that Americans aren't paying outrageous amounts compared to others, but when comparing these things, I think it makes more sense to look at countries with population more similar to US.

Re: The American Healthcare Conundrum

#288

Post by tsoukase »

In health care everyone knows the exact problem because they live it and suggests a solution, mostly from opinion or other countries' systems. In the US the system is so bad primarily due to the holy national founding principles: the minimal public support pushes the prices to exorbitant levels due to loss of regulation that ends up to abject profiteering by providers. People try to hack the system so the price is reduced from exorbitant to very expensive. The naive but painful solution is to borrow and adapt elements from other systems and if the Sweden's feels too socialistic, let it be Portugal's or Greece's. The reform will do good to the whole nation, only a few jobs will be lost and some others will see less 6-figure income.

Re: The American Healthcare Conundrum

#289

Post by AngryData »

graemep wrote: post #60

> The US spends ~$14,570 per person on healthcare. Japan spends ~$5,790 and has the highest life expectancy in the OECD. That gap is roughly $3 trillion per year. The difference in life expectancy will be influenced by multiple factors and may have more to do with diet and lifestyle than with healthcare. Japan also spends less per capita than the UK, France or Germany. The US spends a lot more than any of those so th…

But also age-related care is by far the largest share of medical care costs, and Japan has no lack of very old people. Being unhealthy also often reduces the amount of procedures someone is eligible to receive. Despite the blame people throw on unhealthy people for medical costs, they ironically often cost less because of the reduced care and lower lifespan which cuts out a significant amount of age-related healthcare costs. One could argue dieing at 60 instead of 90 is a big loss socially and personally, but overall financially it is a benefit.

Re: The American Healthcare Conundrum

#290

Post by AngryData »

glitchc wrote: post #259
graemep wrote: post #60

> The US spends ~$14,570 per person on healthcare. Japan spends ~$5,790 and has the highest life expectancy in the OECD. That gap is roughly $3 trillion per year. The difference in life expectancy will be influenced by multiple factors and may have more to do with diet and lifestyle than with healthcare. Japan also spends less per capita than the UK, France or Germany. The US spends a lot more than any of those so th…

Try seeing a doctor in Japan as a foreigner. Just a simple consult costs $300 USD or so, and it goes up from there. It's actually a rather expensive system.

That doesn't seem more expensive to what I generally pay in the US.
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