281–290 of 335 posts
This post is a poor exposition of Crocker’s Rules. Crocker’s Rules were a reaction to the avoidance of direct discussion of topics where some people treat the mere act of discussion in any capacity as offensive. Sacred cows and taboos for which there are social consequences even when asking honest questions. Crocker’s Rules, practically speaking, were a declaration that no good faith discussion was intrinsically offe…
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> "I could care less" Do people really say this? Is it exclusive? I've only heard the inverse: "I couldn't care less". Edit: genuine question. Please explain downvotes!
> Do people really say this? Is it exclusive? I've only heard the inverse: "I couldn't care less". "I could" is American. "I couldn't" is British. As AmEn is now more widespread, the former is widespread, but as a native speaker of BrEn I absolutely detest it and never ever use it.
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Is the critique any more substantial than "the vibes are off?"
The critique is "Taboos probably have a use." I think it's a good faith point. It's not as strong of a critique as "Taboos have purpose {x}" [Maintain ethical standards, promote public safety] or to say "Taboos probably have a use because {y}" [They are in almost every society, some rules should be rules but not laws].
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Out of curiosity, are you a reader? When was the last time you read a full length chapter book for fun? Does it feel like work to you? Is it a slow process? I ask not to insult, but to understand. I can't help but wonder if a lot of this demand for terse language comes from a simple inability to read well? Reading is really not supposed to feel like work to the educated, and it does not to me. For me its just a state…
> Out of curiosity, are you a reader? Very much so. I started reading adult novels at 7 years old, and by the time I was 12 or so, I could if I was hurrying read 5 or 6 novels a day. I read the entire Lord of the Rings trilogy for the first time in 5 days at that age. I've reread it again another 4 times or so. My personal library is somewhere in the region of 5,000 to 7,500 of my favourite books. I estimate that I h…
That was the heart of my question, yes. The only way I could fathom it was to think that maybe some people just found reading generally difficult. The hypothesis being that those few extra words hurt, because reading in general was high effort.
It seems I was very far off the mark, at least in your case. For what it's worth, I've enjoyed several of your recent pieces and found both the Mills and Hoare obituaries to be both informative and empathetic.
Now I wonder if it is sometimes the opposite problem: A skilled writer losing patience when someone less skilled is at the wheel. Others in his thread explored that theory, and it seems they may be onto something.
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The critique is "Taboos probably have a use." I think it's a good faith point. It's not as strong of a critique as "Taboos have purpose {x}" [Maintain ethical standards, promote public safety] or to say "Taboos probably have a use because {y}" [They are in almost every society, some rules should be rules but not laws].
The problem I see is taboos assume the act is always wrong, and preclude consideration for edge cases where it might be the lesser wrong. Consider the incest taboo--yeah, there are very good reasons for this. Should you enter a sexual relationship with a relative? I think society is better off prohibiting this. But what about "What, my wife is actually my sister????" Is forcing them to divorce actually the best answe…
To me taboos is just society taking shortcuts. This is fine, but lets admit that we are taking shortcuts.
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> Yes I did. I am still curious how OP expects that to be received. I’m curious why you perceive their statement to be made as if it’s a pronouncement from God and not a simply a statement of their view on the issue. > I think I agree here too. What do you mean? I mean that you both responded emotionally and communicated with an emotional appeal. You exaggerated what OP actually said and called it a mandate from God.…
> I’m curious why you perceive their statement to be made as if it’s a pronouncement from God and not a simply a statement of their view on the issue. To me it's basic grammar. The sentence structure is approximately: X is Y. I consider this a statement of fact, or perhaps en equivalence relation. This is what was labeling a pronouncement from God. (The idea that how your audience receives the communication is their…
It’s valuable to be aware of how humans actually act.
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I subscribe to the thesis of Death of the Author , that just because someone came up with something, it doesn't necessarily given them a permanent special privilege in its interpretation. Everybody can understand the work as they prefer, and if anything, the work takes on a life of its own in greater society and evolves together with it. (Hence the limits on the duration of copyright.) This is why many common idioms…
> the subject is the code/system/product/organisation, which has no feelings and hence can't be offended This is like saying that telling someone their artwork sucks is not offensive because "the artwork has no feelings."
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Eh, I think the author is also exaggerating the problem significantly. “I hope this is okay to bring up and sorry for the long message, I just wanted to flag that I've been looking at the latency numbers and I'm not totally sure but it seems like there might be an issue with the caching layer?” This isn’t a problem of overpoliteness. It’s a problem of almost nonsensical rambling. I’ve never worked with anyone who act…
> Eh, I think the author is also exaggerating the problem significantly. > “I hope this is okay to bring up and sorry for the long message, I just wanted to flag that I've been looking at the latency numbers and I'm not totally sure but it seems like there might be an issue with the caching layer?” You're cherry-picking the most extreme example out of the bunch as a way of discrediting the argument. If you actual rea…
This has absolutely no relevance to Crocker’s rules. This is just normal human pleasantries.
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> It is better to be effective This is the key to this whole topic. It doesn’t matter what should be . It matters what is . Humans are emotional in nature and ignoring that is not effective. Also the undertone of this topic is always “I want you to be blunt to the point of rudeness (so I can be too).”
> Also the undertone of this topic is always “I want you to be blunt to the point of rudeness (so I can be too).” No, it's not. I've met multiple people who subscribe to Crocker's Rules and none of them are intentionally rude. One of them is one of the more polite people I've met. Don't malicious ascribe false motives to others because you're offended at the idea that they're proposing. That's extremely bad form. Tha…
Literally doing what you accuse me of in the same sentence.
> That's not even what Crocker's Rules are. If you had read the article, you would know that.
This article isn’t really about Crocker’s rules. It links to them but rather misunderstands the point.
The writer asks for it, so I will be blunt. They are demanding people have perfectly formed thoughts crafted in a way to give them just the information they wanted with no consideration for the process of thinking or consideration for the person speaking. It is selfish and impossible. Articles like this, I think, expose how bad we have gotten at both speaking and listening. "I personally value directness, so when som…
> Communication is mind control. The point isn't the words, it is literally trying to get a person to do something. You're describing manipulating people, not communicating with them. The point of communication between engineers is usually to establish a mutual understanding, not make them do something you want. Through that mutual understanding you both come to agree on what should be done. Often, coming to that mut…