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Tesla kills Autopilot, locks lane-keeping behind $99/month fee

arstechnica.com

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Re: Tesla kills Autopilot, locks lane-keeping behind $99/month fee

#281

Post by tzs »

caconym_ wrote: post #229
cbsks wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tesla’s “autosteer” is significantly more advanced than the “lane keeping” feature I’ve seen in rental cars, or my own 2023 Jeep. My understanding is that autosteer will actively keep the car centered in the middle of the lane, while the “lane keeping” I’ve experienced will only adjust the steering when you approach the lane edge, which pin balls you back and forth like a drunk driver.

Both my late model Japanese cars have two systems capable of steering the car toward the middle of the lane. One is an always-on (unless disabled) passive safety system that only kicks in when you actually appear to be drifting off the road, and the other is a system that actively tries to keep the car in the middle of the lane. The latter system has to be toggled on and off and is meant to be complementary with adap…

> I consider good implementations of this and adaptive cruise to be basic equipment now, and asking $99/month for them is absolutely wild

The article doesn't mention it but other articles say that their version of adaptive cruise control (Traffic Aware Cruise Control or TACC) that was part of Autopilot is becoming a standard feature.

Re: Tesla kills Autopilot, locks lane-keeping behind $99/month fee

#282

Post by queenkjuul »

toast0 wrote: post #73
MarkusWandel wrote: post #29

Wait a minute. My recent-ish car has LKAS. It recognizes white lines (or possibly curbs too) and if both boundaries of the lane are recongized, will steer for you - for 10 seconds maybe, before it nags you provide some steering input. But in those 10 seconds it's perfectly capable of smoothly steering around bends in the road on its own. And it is a useful safety feature even if only nudging the steering wheel while…

Is your car really not connected/connectable? I have a 2014 car that's connectable but no driver assistance; I had a 2017 (delivered mid 2016) with lane keeping and emergency braking which seemed pretty new and exciting, and it's connectable, all I would need to do is pay a big annual fee and also setup a 3g CDMA network. Couldn't do much with either if it's connected; I pulled the 3g modem from the 2014 when it was…

My 2016 Corolla has zero advertised connectivity features. It could secretly be sending data somehow, but far as I've been able to tell there's no modem.

Re: Tesla kills Autopilot, locks lane-keeping behind $99/month fee

#283

Post by sizzle »

Chilinot wrote: post #153
Waterluvian wrote: post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have a 2020 Forester and I've come to describing it as "I no-longer drive on the highway, I manage the car." Sometimes I'll get nervous and take over. But even in stop-and-go traffic, it has behaved perfectly. My only complaint is that there's an over-eager PID loop with lane keeping. If I want to pass a transport truck and want to kind of edge to the left of my lane when doing so, it will keep trying to compensate…

My volvo also has a "not perfectly tuned" PID loop. With "autopilot" engaged it keeps weaving constantly left and right inside the lane im in. Have gotten used to keeping a firm-ish pressure on the steering wheel at all times to compensate. But drivers behind me must have thought me drunk before i got the hang of it.

This is lane keep assist not lane centering and dangerous to use as a lane centering feature as it’s not designed to do that hence the ping ponging behavior

Re: Tesla kills Autopilot, locks lane-keeping behind $99/month fee

#284

Post by sizzle »

ajross wrote: post #242
breve wrote: post #220

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But no, your Subaru isn't a meaningful competitor. Tesla is a car company. Every car company is a competitor to Tesla. As a legacy EV manufacturer, Tesla is struggling to compete in the current car market. Tesla's sales have declined for the last two years. It's why they're having to squeeze fewer customers for more revenue.

Clearly I needed to be more precise: Tesla's vehicle autonomy features have no meaningful competition in the consumer auto space, period. Anyone who tries to claim otherwise is flogging some kind of angle, generally a political one. And I say this as someone who despises Musk's politics. But the cars his company makes are way, way, way ahead on this particular feature.

GM supercruise is pretty sweet and hands free on my lyriq

Re: Tesla kills Autopilot, locks lane-keeping behind $99/month fee

#285

Post by SolarToaster »

nradov wrote: post #246
buggy6257 wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My 5 year old Subaru has been able to lane keep and auto follow to the point that a 2h drive on the freeway is me tapping the wheel every ten seconds to keep it enabled while I watch for idiots. It has been able to do this since I bought it, and I haven’t paid a dime extra. Car cost 30k.

I have a newer Subaru as my daily driver. The EyeSight system is fine for what it is but it's very limited. The lane keep assist doesn't work on curvy roads. If brakes unnecessarily when the car ahead takes a highway exit. It cuts out completely in heavy precipitation where a human driver can still proceed safely at low speed.

> If brakes unnecessarily when the car ahead takes a highway exit.

Yep. My workaround is basically hanging back or just being prepared to gas it a bit so it doesn't freak out.

Re: Tesla kills Autopilot, locks lane-keeping behind $99/month fee

#286

Post by sizzle »

dalyons wrote: post #198
Waterluvian wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When I was testing vehicles in 2019 I found that a bunch of them had lane keeping but they kind of "bounced" between the lines. I got a Forester because for reason I typed but but aren't really topic relevant, it was far, far nicer and works amazingly. And for years whenever a Teslafriend would tout their lane keeping, I was just, "uhh yeah my base model Subaru does that." "Oh no, no this is better, this does a lot m…

i have a 2020 outback, and I didnt evaluate the lane keeping as part of the purchase decision. But since then i have rented a ton of different cars for work travel, and have realized surbaru has the best system out there, outside of truly premium cars / software cars like tesla. Some of them (chevvy) are outright dangerous. Its surprising because in every other way subaru's electronic / software sucks :)

Chevy Supercruise and hands on lane centering is excellent in my experience.

Re: Tesla kills Autopilot, locks lane-keeping behind $99/month fee

#287

Post by sizzle »

Centigonal wrote: post #187
ajross wrote: post #159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To be fair, though, the subscription isn't for "Steering Assist", it's for FSD. You don't subscribe to the feature you have on your Corolla, you subscribe to an autonomous navigation solution. This is a pretty boneheaded business decision on Tesla's part. But their technology remains clearly superior.

To underscore this: the boneheaded decision Tesla is making is forcing customers to choose between a $99/mo subscription for FSD, and no ACC or lanekeeping assist otherwise . It's like letting people buy a subscription to the iPhone Pro Max 17 or not have any phone at all. By the way, FSD ("full self-driving") is just as inaccurately named as Autopilot. I don't know why Tesla can't call their technology, like, CyberD…

Thought the S was for supervised?

Re: Tesla kills Autopilot, locks lane-keeping behind $99/month fee

#288

Post by sizzle »

BeetleB wrote: post #194
t0mas88 wrote: post #154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If that's true: What a total idiot in the police car. With a car on lane keeping / cruise control you could slow down in front of it all the way to a stop and it will gladly stop behind you.

> With a car on lane keeping / cruise control you could slow down in front of it all the way to a stop and it will gladly stop behind you. Blue Cruise, and I assume Tesla's FSD as well, will simply change the lane and go around you. If the guy had a simple LKAS and adaptive cruise control on, then yes, you're right.

GM supercruise will go around you too I have it

Re: Tesla kills Autopilot, locks lane-keeping behind $99/month fee

#289

Post by tzs »

wing-_-nuts wrote: post #271
mikkupikku wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Very strong case for keeping your hands on the wheel, eyes on the road and drive the car yourself.

I do. My current car only has regular old cruise control, but it would be nice to have ACC and lane centering for longer drives.d

My car from late 2005 to early 2025, a 2006 Honda CR-V, only has regular old control. That's now my backup car and my main car is 2025 Hyundai Kona EV with adaptive cruise control.

I too thought it would be nice on long drives, but really it hasn't made that much difference. Like everyone I speed on the freeway, but not as much as everyone else, so it rarely has to actually adapt. :-)

The place I've found it makes a huge difference is stop and go or near stop and go traffic. You can't set it to a speed below 20 mph, but if the car it is following goes below that it keeps working all the way down to 0 mph. (You don't have to be going 20 mph to set it. You can set it if you are going above something like 3 or 4 mph, or if you are stopped and there is a stopped car ahead of and it thinks you are on a street. It just sets the speed to 20 mph when you set it under those circumstances).

If the car ahead starts moving again within a few seconds it will automatically follow. If longer it will beep once when the car ahead starts moving and show a message about the lead car leaving. Tapping the accelerator or flicking the cruise control speed adjust switch on the steering wheel will resume following.

Not all adaptive cruise control systems work all the way down to 0 mph. Some cut off well above that. Some only work down to 0 mph on higher trims.

Making sure I get one that does is now on my "must have" requirements for any future car.

Re: Tesla kills Autopilot, locks lane-keeping behind $99/month fee

#290

Post by Mawr »

drak0n1c wrote: post #195
tra3 wrote: post #52

I would gladly pay $99/month if this was honest FSD. I started tracking my time consistently since end of December and in the past 2 weeks I spend 23 hours driving. That's already only $4/hour. I haven't been keeping up with the progress in this space. Last I heard, Benz introduced some sort of self driving feature AND accepted full liability for it (whereas Tesla does not). How does Benz's self driving compare to Te…

There are unsupervised HW4 Tesla robotaxis in Austin open to public use as of yesterday. Lemonade Insurance announced an FSD plan where the price is half the market rate while using FSD. So unless there are specific regulatory barriers for personal vehicles unsupervised should be available for their latest gen personal cars sometime this year.

Oh, but you see, when Mr. Musk said:

'In a post on X.com, Musk said Tesla "started Tesla Robotaxi drives in Austin with no safety monitor in the car. Congrats to the Tesla AI team!"'

He really did mean "in the car". The safety supervisor is still there, just in another car [1], so it's not technically a lie, silly us!

[1]: https://xcancel.com/JoeTegtmeyer/status/2014410572226322794#....

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