Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Dutch government takes control of Chinese-owned chipmaker Nexperia

cnbc.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

281–290 of 668 posts

Re: Dutch government takes control of Chinese-owned chipmaker Nexperia

#281

Post by shtzvhdx »

fsckboy wrote: post #218
shtzvhdx wrote: post #188

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The British, French and Israelis literally went to war against Egypt over the Suez. They only backed up when the US told the Brits and France they would tank their economies still on US life support. And, pray, why did the Machado win the hypocrisy prize on Friday? Why are American ships outside the waters of Venezuela?

> The British, French, and Israelis literally went to war against Egypt over the Suez. The British and the French were concerned about the Suez, but Israel was not dependent on the Suez and went to war over their navigation being blockaded by Egypt in the Gulf of Aqaba and the Straits of Tiran, which was a violation by Egypt of maritime law. Aqaba is in the Sinai peninsula which is also bounded by the Suez. https://e…

I don't see how Egypt's claim against Israel was wrong.

The waters have been internal waters literally for three millennia (or more) until foreigners came in and built a canal connecting what is actually a very narrow gulf to the Mediterranean.

Foreigners come in, unilaterally build a canal and now the locals lose national sovereignty over their waters?

Also, why does Egypt have to agree to the freedom of navigation of a state it did not (at the time) recognize?

Furthermore, why must Egypt agree to the laws of freedom navigation it did not sign?

The answer, of course, is that there is no such thing as international law, or a "rules based order". There's only power makes might.

Re: Dutch government takes control of Chinese-owned chipmaker Nexperia

#282

Post by nicoburns »

maximus_01 wrote: post #228
philosopher1234 wrote: post #194

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m not hearing an argument, and I won’t be thinking one up for you. Seems like only a difference of degree to me.

I'm not here to debate whether free markets are good or bad, but governments have a privileged position versus private companies, and effectively operate above the law (again at least compared to private companies). Any government intervention takes us away from a free market, either a little bit or a lot, depending on the action. Apple is a private company. Anything it does is really part of the free market, at leas…

> governments have a privileged position versus private companies, and effectively operate above the law

A lot of private companies effectively operate above the law too! In theory the law can be enforced on them. In practice it often isn't.

Re: Dutch government takes control of Chinese-owned chipmaker Nexperia

#283

Post by stock_toaster »

D-Coder wrote: post #242
trhway wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I always wondered how the large unified world of Roman Empire with running water and sewer fell apart (and backwards) into multitude of small feudal pieces with no technology to speak of for the 1000 years after Roman Empire. I think our modern civilization is probably at the beginning of similar process.

_Washington Post_ just had an article about why ( https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2025/10/12/america-r... ). "In 1984, a German historian compiled 210 explanations historians had suggested for Rome’s fall, from lead poisoning and barbarian invasions to Christianity, moral decline and gout. After studying dynamic civilizations such as Athens, Rome, Abbasid Baghdad, Song China, Renaissance Italy and the Dutch R…

I always figured it was a combination of the volcanic winter of 536[1] and the Justinianic plague[2] (which happened right as the eastern roman empire was reconquering the western empire to reunify).

[1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volcanic_winter_of_536 and https://www.science.org/content/article/why-536-was-worst-ye...

[2]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plague_of_Justinian

Re: Dutch government takes control of Chinese-owned chipmaker Nexperia

#284

Post by motorest »

roughly wrote: post #264
itopaloglu83 wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Everybody is a fan of free access and capital markets, until a foreign entity purchases something of importance. It’s a continuation of recent trends and closing markets. Nobody in their sane mind would allow a company like ASML or the likes to be purchased by competitors. But the irony is that when a non-European entity were to do something like this, e.g. nationalize their oil or mining etc. industry or a firm, the…

It gets a lot less contradictory when you realize the principles are window dressing for the interests. Early America had no regard for intellectual property rights because all the good media came from abroad - then we built Hollywood and saw the light. The west pushes deregulation and free trade because we've got the money and the only thing that can keep us from sucking a market dry is government intervention. The…

> It gets a lot less contradictory when you realize the principles are window dressing for the interests.

I don't think this is the epiphany you think it represents. The whole point of laws and regulations is to protect interests.

Do you think that any regime passes and enforces laws that are detrimental to their best interests?

In free market economies, laws and regulations are put in place to foster competition, and antitrust legislation is in place to prevent anticompetitive practices. However, laws and regulations are also in place to prevent strategic interests from being captured or even threatened. The motivation is rather obvious and to the point. Where is this window dressing you speak of?

> Nation states will use whatever words are necessary to justify their actions, but the game is and always has been power, leverage, and interest.

Your post shows some degree of confusion, specially by the way you imply inconsistencies. There are none, and the whole point is rather on the nose. Internal competition and level playing fields are promoted as they pressure companies to improve their competitiveness. "Competitiveness" is the operating principle. Having a rival third-party perform an action that threatens your competitiveness is obviously not acceptable.

Re: Dutch government takes control of Chinese-owned chipmaker Nexperia

#285

Post by onetimeusename »

itopaloglu83 wrote: post #133
Doxin wrote: post #5

Some more context from a dutch news source[0]: The ministry of economic affairs intervened out of a fear that crucial technological skills and capacities will leave the Netherlands and Europe. The ministry stated in a press release[1] that there was a threat of a "knowledge leak" (w/e that means exactly) and a possible threat to the European economy. After this intervention the Dutch government can now stop or revers…

Everybody is a fan of free access and capital markets, until a foreign entity purchases something of importance. It’s a continuation of recent trends and closing markets. Nobody in their sane mind would allow a company like ASML or the likes to be purchased by competitors. But the irony is that when a non-European entity were to do something like this, e.g. nationalize their oil or mining etc. industry or a firm, the…

That has happened and not a lot came of it. Venezuela nationalized American oil projects under Hugo Chavez. If by hell breaking loose you mean law suits I guess so.

Re: Dutch government takes control of Chinese-owned chipmaker Nexperia

#286

Post by spookie »

shtzvhdx wrote: post #188
like_any_other wrote: post #184

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What about them? The claim, or rather implication, was that Western powers would never allow equivalent protectionist policies, such as preventing the export of key industries and skills, to be enacted by other countries. Yet such protectionism is routine in China (and many other Asian countries), and "whole hell" did not break loose. A few more than half century old examples don't change what we can all see is the c…

The British, French and Israelis literally went to war against Egypt over the Suez. They only backed up when the US told the Brits and France they would tank their economies still on US life support. And, pray, why did the Machado win the hypocrisy prize on Friday? Why are American ships outside the waters of Venezuela?

Venezuela has threaten war against their neighbours. Maybe a little bird told their president to do so [1], but still...

[1] https://www.latintimes.com/nicolas-maduro-losing-it-venezuel...

Re: Dutch government takes control of Chinese-owned chipmaker Nexperia

#287

Post by hopelite »

itopaloglu83 wrote: post #133
Doxin wrote: post #5

Some more context from a dutch news source[0]: The ministry of economic affairs intervened out of a fear that crucial technological skills and capacities will leave the Netherlands and Europe. The ministry stated in a press release[1] that there was a threat of a "knowledge leak" (w/e that means exactly) and a possible threat to the European economy. After this intervention the Dutch government can now stop or revers…

Everybody is a fan of free access and capital markets, until a foreign entity purchases something of importance. It’s a continuation of recent trends and closing markets. Nobody in their sane mind would allow a company like ASML or the likes to be purchased by competitors. But the irony is that when a non-European entity were to do something like this, e.g. nationalize their oil or mining etc. industry or a firm, the…

That’s not quite correct. It wasn’t the foreign entity purchasing something, or they wouldn’t have allowed all the foreign entities purchasing things. It is more accurate to say they didn’t care as long as they thought they had the advantage and letting the foreign entity buy critically important companies and industries was a means for grooming them or working them to serve your interests. What “America” has realized is that their plan to develop China into an asset/ally simply did not work, nor that they’ve totally empowered them and likely the Chinese were intentionally sharing false data to give false understanding of how they were doing overall.

We’ve recently seen a major reversal on China in particular, because it has dawned on people they were being played, not that they were the player.

Re: Dutch government takes control of Chinese-owned chipmaker Nexperia

#288

Post by higginsniggins »

nine_k wrote: post #212
higginsniggins wrote: post #205

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A free market just means that people are allowed to buy and sell what they want. If a government decides to help some industries that is irrelevant. It stops being free when government attacks economic activity, not when it promotes it.

"Dumping" (selling at an artificially low price) is widely considered an attack on economic activity of the competitors, even though it may spur the economic activity of the consumers of the products being dumped. In this regard, the Chinese government pouring large subsidies into solar panel production both spurred the economic activity around installing solar panels, and attacked / thwarted in around production of…

"attack on economic activity of the competitors"

Thats competition. It is a feature of markets.

not a bug.

Re: Dutch government takes control of Chinese-owned chipmaker Nexperia

#289

Post by motorest »

itopaloglu83 wrote: post #215
like_any_other wrote: post #164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But the irony is that when a non-European entity were to do something like this, e.g. nationalize their oil or mining etc. industry or a firm, the whole hell would brake loose. As far as I understand, Samsung, TSMC, and SMIC are all closely guarded by their respective governments. And China doesn't (didn't?) allow foreign companies to operate in China without a local partner at all. So I don't see the irony - every…

I said it that way because I don’t like the hypocrisies in general, and I said European because the comment I responded to combined Dutch and European markets into one. It would be foolish to sell off a great value like ASML or others that adds incredible value. But one should also not get mad when other countries do it, because they see their industries as valuable things as well. Our markets are just getting more c…

> It would be foolish to sell off a great value like ASML or others that adds incredible value. But one should also not get mad when other countries do it, because they see their industries as valuable things as well.

This reads like a straw man argument. No one gets mad when other countries do it. At most, you see complains of protectionism being unilaterally imposed while benefitting from your competitor's openness. See for example the criticism directed at the likes of China for preventing foreign companies from even investing in their domestic market without a government-minder-as-a-partner scheme, while China throws a tantrum when there is even a hint of suggestion that Chinese companies should be subjected to the same type of treatment when operating abroad. See the case of TikTok, for example.

Re: Dutch government takes control of Chinese-owned chipmaker Nexperia

#290

Post by Sloowms »

onetimeusename wrote: post #285
itopaloglu83 wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Everybody is a fan of free access and capital markets, until a foreign entity purchases something of importance. It’s a continuation of recent trends and closing markets. Nobody in their sane mind would allow a company like ASML or the likes to be purchased by competitors. But the irony is that when a non-European entity were to do something like this, e.g. nationalize their oil or mining etc. industry or a firm, the…

That has happened and not a lot came of it. Venezuela nationalized American oil projects under Hugo Chavez. If by hell breaking loose you mean law suits I guess so.

Ah yes, Venezuela famously only has lawsuits that happened to them. Maybe look up Guaido, the 3% polling self and US declared president of Venezuela.
Post reply on HN