Live data from Hacker News

Canadian bill would strip internet access from 'specified persons', no warrant

nationalpost.com

281–290 of 414 posts

Re: Canadian bill would strip internet access from 'specified persons', no warrant

#281
post #73

There is no such thing as rights or a constitution in Canada. The government can waive them away with a “notwithstanding” clause and then they can do what they like.

This law does not cite the notwithstanding clause, so nothing has been waived away. The federal government has never once invoked the notwithstanding clause. Furthermore, the notwithstanding clause only allows overriding some rights. It does not override the entire constitution.

It doesn't override all, just the most important ones: sections 2 & 7-15. Section 2 is even titled "fundamental freedoms". This means all of the following (and more) are subject to "notwithstanding":

Freedom of conscience and religion.

Freedom of thought, belief, opinion and expression, including freedom of the press and other media of communication.

Freedom of peaceful assembly.

Freedom of association.

Right to life, liberty and security of the person and the right not to be deprived thereof except in accordance with the principles of fundamental justice.

Right to be secure against unreasonable search or seizure.

Right not to be arbitrarily detained or imprisoned.

Right not to be subjected to any cruel and unusual treatment or punishment.

Right to equality before and under the law and right to the equal protection and equal benefit of the law without discrimination and, in particular, without discrimination based on race, national or ethnic origin, colour, religion, sex, age or mental or physical disability.

Re: Canadian bill would strip internet access from 'specified persons', no warrant

#282

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The current “workaround” to the 4th amendment is to simply have private companies who do surveillance and then buy bulk data from them. ICE does this with location data from mobile apps. They simply buy from a private vendor the information about where specific people are. Then they go detain them. Some real life friends of mine are on a work crew with some migrants. ICE pulled their truck over, asked the migrants to…

If you are an illegal immigrat how do you even get a mobile phone contract though? In every country I know a valid ID is required to get one.

Walk into 7/11 and buy a prepaid SIM card

Re: Canadian bill would strip internet access from 'specified persons', no warrant

#283

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A few fascist movements sprang out of leftist movements, or had some small overlap in rhetoric with the left, but by and large the most repressive Western governments have come firmly if not exclusively from the right.

So sure, if you ignore all Communist countries and lump in Islamist countries with the western 'right' you can make that argument. Back on earth, its always the left that is motivated by ideology. The only right wing governments who turn authoritarian do so for money and power, not ideology. The ideology of the right (in the west) is specifically designed to be against that. That's why the biggest body counts always…

[flagged]

Re: Canadian bill would strip internet access from 'specified persons', no warrant

#284

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A few fascist movements sprang out of leftist movements, or had some small overlap in rhetoric with the left, but by and large the most repressive Western governments have come firmly if not exclusively from the right.

So sure, if you ignore all Communist countries and lump in Islamist countries with the western 'right' you can make that argument. Back on earth, its always the left that is motivated by ideology. The only right wing governments who turn authoritarian do so for money and power, not ideology. The ideology of the right (in the west) is specifically designed to be against that. That's why the biggest body counts always…

Islamic fundamentalism is right-wing, not sure why you're making it its own category

Re: Canadian bill would strip internet access from 'specified persons', no warrant

#285

I think countries with division and low social trust and cohesion necessarily require increasingly authoritarian measures from the government to hold them together. Increasing dependence on government for their own security will reduce peoples' ability to question and change the government. One might think it's all part of the plan. Real freedom and self determination has been a fleeting blink of an eye in the histor…

> I think countries with division and low social trust and cohesion necessarily require increasingly authoritarian measures from the government to hold them together.

This sounds like it makes sense, but in reality, the most authoritarian countries throughout history and presently are highly nationalist.

A strong and cohesive national identity does not reduce authoritarianism. If anything, it seems to be one of the primary and most reliable indicators of authoritarianism.

Re: Canadian bill would strip internet access from 'specified persons', no warrant

#286
post #29

I tought that the National Post was exaggerating the severity in their crusade against the Liberal like they frequently do. So I when to read the law and it's as bad as they say: https://www.parl.ca/DocumentViewer/en/45-1/bill/C-8/first-re... ... Factor Before making the order, the Governor in Council must consider (a) its operational impact on the affected telecommunications service providers; (b) its financial impa…

Damn those rich bastards must really be afraid of us

Not nearly afraid enough.

Re: Canadian bill would strip internet access from 'specified persons', no warrant

#287

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So sure, if you ignore all Communist countries and lump in Islamist countries with the western 'right' you can make that argument. Back on earth, its always the left that is motivated by ideology. The only right wing governments who turn authoritarian do so for money and power, not ideology. The ideology of the right (in the west) is specifically designed to be against that. That's why the biggest body counts always…

> Back on earth, its always the left that is motivated by ideology. Is it? I don't really remember the last time I've seen right-wing discourse that wasn't centered around moral panic, whether terrorism, immigration, reactionary anti-leftist worldviews, or the opposition to LGBT rights, women's rights, abolitionism, or whatever else is the current threat to all of western society. Not to mention all the damn religiou…

Orban is from Hungary, not Croatia.

If you go back in time just 40 years, the countries you did (and didn't) mention, were all governed by communists. With considerable body count. Right-wing regimes in Europe after WW2 have negligible body counts compared to communists, and if you want to include WW2 and pre-WW2 times, then communists are still worse, even if you count all victims of Germany and/or NSDAP, incl. Holocaust/Shoah, towards right-wing violence.

See e.g. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holodomor

Just because communism didn't happen in your country doesn't mean in didn't happen elsewhere, and there are still some of us who remember exactly what it was and will protest when someone attributes violence and/or authoritarism only to right wing.

Re: Canadian bill would strip internet access from 'specified persons', no warrant

#289
post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If there's an avenue for extrajudicial punishment it seems like every government is angling to use it. How did we wind up with such openly vindictive and unprincipled people in our governments? Like you call yourself Liberals, surely it's clear as day that such a thing isn't compatible with how you believe government should operate. You're doing this because you can't arrest them for a crime—shouldn't that give you p…

Liberals believe in things like free speech and equal protection under the law. There isn't a political party in the English speaking world who uses the word 'Liberal' in their name which is actually Liberal. Every single one of them is better described as Socialist or Marxist. You want to know what a liberal sounds like? Listen to Bill Clinton's speech in the 90s or a current day Republican. Those are liberals.

> Every single one of them is better described as Socialist or Marxist.

I mean, this is just delusional.

Most liberal politicians in the US are slightly center right. And the US is not alone in that.

There's very, very, VERY few marxists out there. What happens is that someone is neoliberal in 99% of circumstances. And then they take a slightly more communal approach to one problem. And now, they're Marxist.

Uh, no. They're neoliberal, they're just not stubborn.

If you're on the US and you advocate, say, single payer healthcare, you're not a Marxist. You can listen to these people. They're staunch capitalists, and they're arguing we should make an exception for this one thing.

That's not Marxism.

Re: Canadian bill would strip internet access from 'specified persons', no warrant

#290
post #286

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Damn those rich bastards must really be afraid of us

Not nearly afraid enough.

I have to laugh. Why do you think this? They own everything. They have successfully taken over both parties for them to steam roll literally everything they want. Taxes have never been lower. The wealth gap never higher. The only people trying to stand up to them are progressives but even the Democratic party works against them. They've won. They have nothing to be afraid of.
Post reply on HN