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How Kerala got rich

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Re: How Kerala got rich

#281

Post by your_challenger »

YouAreRONGS wrote: post #267
your_challenger wrote: post #260

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why is it "controversial" to have a left leaning government and a significant population of Christians or Muslims? Yes, Kerala had early "true" communism (land reforms, nokku kooli) but since then it has just been a left leaning, liberal government. Also answer why you find it controversial for it to have other religions than Hinduism.

It's politically charged to have politically-driven narratives on HN, especially when it has the basis of ethnic politics. This makes it controversial in the first place.

If someone feels threatened by "liberal governance" and "religious diversity", that says more about them than about Kerala.

HN is great because discussions stand on their merit, not on downvotes. You using a throwaway account just to push an agenda proves the point.

Re: How Kerala got rich

#282

Post by thisislife2 »

nick__m wrote: post #201
paulluuk wrote: post #175

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think that in almost all western countries, a life spent entirely on hoarding wealth for the sake of wealth, is considered a sad life. Especially if you don't even have any loved ones to share your wealth with. I think the same it true for most of Latin america, where many of my friends and colleagues are from. And when I was in Nepal they thought that, if anything, western people are way too much focused on gather…

Islam specifically rejects hoarding wealth, so I think that pretty much takes out most of the middle east I don't know much about religions but I don't believe it is that clearly delineated. How would you explain Saudi Arabia, United Arab Emirates, Qatar and Bahrain, from my limited vantage point they seem pretty much all in on their religion. Are they practicing a perverse form of Islam like the Christian who practi…

Islam is a very practical religion. And that applies to how it treats wealth and socialism.

Like many religion it emphasises the importance of being good, and doing good, to enjoy the rewards of that in the after life (i.e. it teaches delayed gratification). But it also recognizes that advocating its adherent to forego all wordly attachment and live like a saint is also not practical for society. Thus, it also pragmatically says that a muslims doesn't have to wait for the afterlife to enjoy the rewards of good deeds - God has given humans the ability to enjoy certain pleasures in life, and achieve a higher sense of spiritual enlightenment, and that too depends on the good deeds you do in this life:

    Whoever does good, whether male or female, and is a believer, We will surely bless them with a good life, and We will certainly reward them according to the best of their deeds. (Quran 16:97)
Islamic scholars interpret this as a promise from God to the Children of Adam, who do righteous deeds - deeds in accordance with the Book of God and the teachings of His Prophet, with a heart that believes in God and His Messenger. God promises that He will give them a good life in this world and that He will reward them according to the best of their deeds in the Hereafter. Some scholars say this means a life with feelings of tranquillity in all aspects of life, while some suggest it means contentment and / or happiness in this life.

More here: https://islamqa.info/en/answers/12702/is-there-reward-for-go...

That is why no muslim needs to feel guilty about the wealth they have inherited or earned provided it is done through honest means, without hurting others, and they also follow the Islamic obligations of Zakat (charity). This charity is how socialism works in Islam. Islam says that the wealth of the world doesn't belong to anyone but God. And wealthy muslims (and rulers) are just custodians of his wealth. And God commands the wealthy to share their wealth with the poor, and prescribes how this should be done (annually 2.5% of your wealth should be given to the poor and needy). Even here, Islam is very practical - it recognizes how human nature is often suspicious of helping strangers, and thus says to look for people within your own family, your own friends, your own neighbourhood, your own muslim community etc. (i.e. your own social circles) to do this kind of charity.

More on this: https://thequranrecital.com/zakat-obligatory-charity-explain...

And this kind of wealth creation, with charity, is seen in the middle-east, amongst all these middle-eastern countries you mentioned.

Re: How Kerala got rich

#283

Post by m0llusk »

redzedi wrote: post #69

y is this on HN first page? by wat measure is Kerala rich? No industries if exports bodies to ME, commie rule for decades atrophied all industry. It's a political hitjob against India central gov, HN should keep its standard above this shitshow

India is a very large nation that is recovering from prolonged exposure to Imperial Colonialism so there is great expectation for social and economic improvement which ultimately effects us all.

Re: How Kerala got rich

#284

Post by srean »

YouAreRONGS wrote: post #238
srean wrote: post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To put this in context, during Covid, hundreds of bodies were being dumped in the Ganges river, buried in shallow graves on the sandbars in states like Uttar Pradesh. The state govt took an active role to remove the grave markers so that an accurate estimate of the numbers could not be ascertained. These were covered by local bloggers, vloggers and news channels. Kerala is one of the few states that managed medical s…

Is that because of the communist government, or simply because the state has a lot of money from the Middle East?

In India atleast, 'communism' or 'Marxism' in the names of political parties that actually run a state is just a name that has stuck. These entities and people have to be a lot more pragmatic. This is in contrast to those who are arm chair think tanks that you would find in advisory boards, universities etc. These would be people who do not run for elections.

Now, as for Kerala's handling of Covid, that was funded by state govt coffers. So Middle East money had a negligible contribution. What made a difference though is a history of preference for investing in social safety nets and basic infrastructure for people, such as schools, nutrition, hospitals.

Re: How Kerala got rich

#285

Post by [deleted] »

vram22 wrote: post #215
anon291 wrote: post #179

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Kerala has a mix of Western population that decided to stay back after the Indian Independence that brought with them Christianity, education, hospitals, and the Catholic culture. Kerala is also one of the few places in India where you can eat beef without inhibitions. Christianity in Kerala is much older than European Christianity. Literally the land of the Apostles

>Christianity in Kerala is much older than European Christianity. Yes: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saint_Thomas_Christians See the History section.

[deleted]

Re: How Kerala got rich

#286

Post by inglor_cz »

not_kurt_godel wrote: post #164
jmathai wrote: post #3

I was born in the US but my parents are from Kerala and I still have family there that I visit. One thing I found interesting was the pride in literacy and education. Kerala has a 96% literacy rate which is the highest in India [1]. It's one of my favorite places to visit. Unlike other parts of India such as Bengaluru, Mumbai and Hyderbad -- it's tropical and lush with much less pollution than what you might see in t…

The connection between education and wealth is very strong. Very sad that the US has decided to pursue a trajectory towards poverty in this area.

I think that with TikTok and such channels squeezing out the ability to read, the entire humanity is embarking on a massive de-literatization experiment.

Re: How Kerala got rich

#287

Post by guerrilla »

0xbadcafebee wrote: post #183
guerrilla wrote: post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Lieracy surveys aren't as rigorous; likely 5% to 20% drop from reported numbers: https://www.dataforindia.com/measuring-literacy/ This is very well studied in sociology and anthropology and has been for many decades. Kerala is a major case study in many fields because of this.

To add to this: the most recent "96.2% literacy" estimate is based on a 2017 survey (not the 2011 census) where they interviewed a little over 2500 households in Kerala, though there are 7.7 million households there. I'm not a statistician, but this feels like too small of a sample size to make a definitive estimation. In addition, other states got very close to that literacy rate, but are probably managed quite diff…

You're right. You're not a statistician. My point was against yours. The consensus by experts in myltiple fields, who study specifically this, is that literacy in Kerela is exceptionally high. That is one study among many, one that only confirms what they way they already know.

Re: How Kerala got rich

#288

Post by torginus »

not_kurt_godel wrote: post #164
jmathai wrote: post #3

I was born in the US but my parents are from Kerala and I still have family there that I visit. One thing I found interesting was the pride in literacy and education. Kerala has a 96% literacy rate which is the highest in India [1]. It's one of my favorite places to visit. Unlike other parts of India such as Bengaluru, Mumbai and Hyderbad -- it's tropical and lush with much less pollution than what you might see in t…

The connection between education and wealth is very strong. Very sad that the US has decided to pursue a trajectory towards poverty in this area.

That's patently not true. The connection exists only as far as if you're uneducated (and/or have subnormal IQ), you're likely to be poor, I suspect because you're not smart enough to master the basic skills to function in society, so it might be because of the latter.

Outside of the US there are very few countries where being highly educated (as in having an in-demand degree from a prestigious university) nets you anything beyond a small earnings bump over the middle class, and the people who have this are a small elite (no more than a few percent) everywhere.

Re: How Kerala got rich

#289

Post by peterfirefly »

YouAreRONGS wrote: post #230
not_kurt_godel wrote: post #164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The connection between education and wealth is very strong. Very sad that the US has decided to pursue a trajectory towards poverty in this area.

Literacy is a by-product of raising living standards. It's not inherintly something that will alone lead to higher living standards.

Europe had really high literacy long before it reached the living standard of most of current Africa. Living standards do not have to be high for near universal literacy.

Re: How Kerala got rich

#290

Post by __rito__ »

Gud wrote: post #272
__rito__ wrote: post #254

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Many Keralian small towns and villages seemed empty to me. That's what I meant. I am sure what you are saying is true.

What you call empty, many would call spacious. Not everywhere has to be crowded.

When I say empty, I mean, houses are there, and they are unoccupied. Schools are there, but there aren't students. Etc.

Did you even read what I linked? And it was not the only reason I wrote the comment. There are other points in the comment as well.

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