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How Kerala got rich

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Re: How Kerala got rich

#181

Post by NoelJacob »

zozbot234 wrote: post #174
NoelJacob wrote: post #168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can still live comfortably without depending on private (I meant large private) entities in Kerala. Also there are supermarket chains but they haven't overtaken normal non-chain grocery supermarkets. Not even close. Of the top of my head I can list three chains near me and most of my household lives without needing to buy from them and just going to regular stores. Edit: To add to it. In Italy, you eat pasta for…

The dirty little secret is that mom-and-pop stores are extremely inefficient compared to big chain businesses. A big business is also a lot more likely to actually pay taxes to the government, and it still manages to beat the mom-and-pop store on efficiency even after accounting for that!

Yes, they are efficient, obviously as economies of scale. Add in consulting and quants and they'll rise in profitability. But the problem is decision making power lies in hands of select few. When you are a too large a corporate, you basically have no oversight over how much you can optimize in exchange for ill social effects. All corporates had humble beginnings, and over time hyper optimization for profits creep in. Maybe in the beginning, the synthetic preservative they add to optimize profits, was below the threshold, but over the years as need for profit and 'growth' grows and, managements and mindsets change, they could very well go above the threshold and, being big now be profitable enough even after they were caught and they had to deal with the repercussions. Well why would a rational actor not squeeze every dollar out of the customer when they can still be profitable even when accounting for the money they could pay as repercussions for fraud? I'm not saying mom-and-pop are defenders of righteousness or smth, but just from watching the news I can say I trust them over corporates, because they are A) are scared of law as they have more to loose as a percentage of what they have than INDIVIDUALS in the corporate B) feel better moral, idk attitude?, towards the customer, mostly and COMPARATIVELY than the corps. Of the top of my head, I think, cooperatives might be the current best solution or some decentralized frameworks/systems for stores considering efficiency vs power concentration.

> pay taxes to the government

Here, at their turnover local stores are exempt from income tax

Re: How Kerala got rich

#182

Post by hammock »

fakedang wrote: post #146
vinay427 wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Unlike other parts of India such as Bengaluru, Mumbai and Hyderbad -- it's tropical and lush with much less pollution than what you might see in those other parts of India. Somewhat ironically these are relatively low pollution as large cities in India go. There is still a good amount of greenery in Bengaluru (it is famous for it) but obviously far less than a few decades ago, as many residents lament.

Bangalore today is a shadow compared to the Garden City it once was. For outsiders not in the know, Bangalore was famous for its beautiful lakes and the lush greenery around them. It was absolutely something else, finding these beautiful water bodies smack in the middle of what is supposed to be a major city. The weather was cool, almost like a warm European summer (which is extremely cool by Indian standards). Then…

I had no idea and thank you for sharing. Why did it fall apart?

Re: How Kerala got rich

#183

Post by 0xbadcafebee »

guerrilla wrote: post #144
ignoramous wrote: post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Like many in the diaspora, you may have a romantic view of your roots. > much less pollution Comparatively? Perhaps. One look at the Vembanad Lake and you'll know what I'm talking about: https://www.thehindu.com/news/cities/Kochi/high-levels-of-fa... It stinks these days. > Kerala has a 96% literacy rate Lieracy surveys aren't as rigorous; likely 5% to 20% drop from reported numbers: https://www.dataforindia.com/meas…

> Lieracy surveys aren't as rigorous; likely 5% to 20% drop from reported numbers: https://www.dataforindia.com/measuring-literacy/ This is very well studied in sociology and anthropology and has been for many decades. Kerala is a major case study in many fields because of this.

To add to this: the most recent "96.2% literacy" estimate is based on a 2017 survey (not the 2011 census) where they interviewed a little over 2500 households in Kerala, though there are 7.7 million households there. I'm not a statistician, but this feels like too small of a sample size to make a definitive estimation.

In addition, other states got very close to that literacy rate, but are probably managed quite differently to Kerala. Worth considering if people want to try to replicate Kerala's efforts without considering the wider context

Re: How Kerala got rich

#184

Post by zozbot234 »

NoelJacob wrote: post #181
zozbot234 wrote: post #174

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The dirty little secret is that mom-and-pop stores are extremely inefficient compared to big chain businesses. A big business is also a lot more likely to actually pay taxes to the government, and it still manages to beat the mom-and-pop store on efficiency even after accounting for that!

Yes, they are efficient, obviously as economies of scale. Add in consulting and quants and they'll rise in profitability. But the problem is decision making power lies in hands of select few. When you are a too large a corporate, you basically have no oversight over how much you can optimize in exchange for ill social effects. All corporates had humble beginnings, and over time hyper optimization for profits creep in…

> When you are a too large a corporate, you basically have no oversight over how much you can optimize in exchange for ill social effects

It's actually easier to have meaningful oversight over a single larger firm than a bunch of local stores. The thing is that what people often refer to as "ill social effects" of large businesses are not proven to any meaningful extent. At least the gain in efficiency is quite real and can be readily ascertained.

Re: How Kerala got rich

#185

Post by Cherian »

anon291 wrote: post #179
Cherian wrote: post #92

I was born in the second southernmost district of Kerala, Quilon (now Kollam). I am now a U.S. citizen in the Bay Area. Growing up in Quilon, I attended an Anglo-Indian boy's school called Infant Jesus - in a small strip of land called Thangassery, people predominantly spoke English. I was taught British dialects emphasizing pronunciations that mimicked the world stage. I didn't really understand it until much later…

> Kerala has a mix of Western population that decided to stay back after the Indian Independence that brought with them Christianity, education, hospitals, and the Catholic culture. Kerala is also one of the few places in India where you can eat beef without inhibitions. Christianity in Kerala is much older than European Christianity. Literally the land of the Apostles

Agree. The Christians that came with the Apostles mainly were Syrians who were traders and kept to themselves for 13-14 centuries.

The British Christians were engaged in evangelism and, consequently, set up colleges, schools, hospitals, and other such institutions. They were also involved in conversions that led to the penetration of Christianity from a minor fraction (during the time from the early AD till 18th century) to double digits. This was obviously instrumental for English language inculcation.

Re: How Kerala got rich

#186

Post by raincom »

omnibrain wrote: post #158

Funny seeing Kerala here. Just a few days ago I got a post into my timeline where someone wrote about taking a forest road out of Kerala in the evening and what a bad idea that was, because of Google Maps not working right and wild animals in the woods. That lead me to looking it up on google maps and I noticed something curious: It looks like Kerala has border checkpoints to the surrounding states. Complete with tur…

If a check point is in a remote area, it is usually a checkpoint manned by forest officials: illegal logging and other stuff.

Re: How Kerala got rich

#187

Post by nextts »

schnable wrote: post #85
Nevermark wrote: post #81

I find the over use of "socialist" as a negative term to apply to any mutual investment, regardless of returns, so myopic. Families are "socialist". Investing in each other and their young. Wealthy families are even more "socialist". Dramatically so. Investing in offspring through childhood, higher education, and often long after. For good reason. Education and health have a compounding impact on people's potentials,…

Are families socialist, or clannish and nepotistic? I don't think you can run a country like a family, especially a multicultural transcontinental one.

I think family loyalty is deep rooted, where as socialism is something people debate (maybe more a mix of neocortex I.e. planning and lower emotions coming from morality and political identification)

No matter what their politics most people will look out for their family especially their kids.

Re: How Kerala got rich

#188

Post by NoelJacob »

zozbot234 wrote: post #184
NoelJacob wrote: post #181

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, they are efficient, obviously as economies of scale. Add in consulting and quants and they'll rise in profitability. But the problem is decision making power lies in hands of select few. When you are a too large a corporate, you basically have no oversight over how much you can optimize in exchange for ill social effects. All corporates had humble beginnings, and over time hyper optimization for profits creep in…

> When you are a too large a corporate, you basically have no oversight over how much you can optimize in exchange for ill social effects It's actually easier to have meaningful oversight over a single larger firm than a bunch of local stores. The thing is that what people often refer to as "ill social effects" of large businesses are not proven to any meaningful extent. At least the gain in efficiency is quite real…

So you are saying the individuals (not affiliated to any corporate) in a field are collectively doing/did more harm to people and environment, on purpose, than all the harm corporates in the same field are collectively doing/did, on purpose?

Corporates have power to sway governments/FDA/X in their personal favor (unlike a common individual for his own personal favor). As bigger the power of entity gets to the power of government, more government looses power over it, more at the discretion of its decision makers its users become. Why would a rational actor not do bad for profits if they can get away with it? Why would an entity, with a power, not exercise it, if net benefit to self is positive?

Re: How Kerala got rich

#189

Post by hn_throwaway_99 »

sowhat25 wrote: post #115
sva_ wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'll have what he's having

Joy?

Well, anyone that says "all India states are very beautifull places" must be on something. Not denying India has some beautiful places, but it also has some of the most post-apocalyptic places I've ever seen. Gurugram reminded me exactly of the city in Blade Runner.

Re: How Kerala got rich

#190

Post by tdeck »

2511 wrote: post #18
xnx wrote: post #7

Doesn't a Kerala temple contain in excess of $22 billion worth of gold?

you are correct. Padmanabhan temple apparently has gold worth 22 billion dollars. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Padmanabhaswamy_Temple_treas...

I don't know if I'm more surprised by the amount of gold, or by the fact that there's still a royal family in India that owns it.
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