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Microsoft faces antitrust scrutiny from the EU over Teams, Office 365

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Re: Microsoft faces antitrust scrutiny from the EU over Teams, Office 365

#281

Post by TeMPOraL »

tacotacotaco wrote: post #274
justinclift wrote: post #166

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Incredibly lucky" this time around I'm thinking. :) Oh, are you using it on an Apple Silicon mac?

Not the OP but I do run Teams on Apple Silicon and it is still a bug-ridden mess. Crashes, rendering bugs, file attachment bugs. At least once a week, usually more. Searches fail to find results that I can manually locate by scrolling through the chat history. I have reinstalled the app more than once. I have shared these observations in their feedback pop ups and I know Microsoft loves collecting telemetry. Why shou…

As per the hypothesis I stated, I think your problem is running Teams on an Apple system. I'm not defending Microsoft releasing a shitty product here, but I think it's most likely they didn't bother to properly test/debug it for other OSes and configurations than "embracing Windows and the Office ecosystem".

Re: Microsoft faces antitrust scrutiny from the EU over Teams, Office 365

#282

Post by justinclift »

TeMPOraL wrote: post #280
justinclift wrote: post #166

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Incredibly lucky" this time around I'm thinking. :) Oh, are you using it on an Apple Silicon mac?

Nah. Just a random Thinkpad. I think Apple Silicon is going to one's experience worse here, not better - because of the "Apple" part.

No worries. Was just wondering, as other dev's I know that run Teams on macOS (intel and arm64) say it's a pretty shitty experience.

Was thinking maybe something had changed, but sounds like no. ;)

Re: Microsoft faces antitrust scrutiny from the EU over Teams, Office 365

#284

Post by tinus_hn »

Just like they faced scrutiny when bundling IE. Microsoft has been at the monopoly game again forever since the restrictions expired, with bundling and pumping up their inferior OneDrive, HyperV, Teams, Edge and Bing products.

They don’t care and the EU will not impress either them or me unless instead of shaking fists they actually act: break up Windows, Office, browser, hardware and services, forced opening of any API used by another part, permanent bans on any kind of bundling, permanent vigilance and enforcement with mega fines and product bans.

But that is just never going to happen. The EU only actually acts against parties that don’t talk back and Microsoft will drag this out until they slither out underneath and the EU will find an excuse why they ‘let this one slip’. Because they are totally dependent on and addicted to Microsoft.

Re: Microsoft faces antitrust scrutiny from the EU over Teams, Office 365

#285

Post by 0xedd »

TeMPOraL wrote: post #145
llimos wrote: post #118

This is just weird because there has been a chat app as part of Office since 2007 (Office Communicator, then Lync, then Skype for Business, then Teams). That's way before Slack even existed. Is the claim that it's anti-competitive simply because they made their existing chat functionality better ? Or because Slack decided to launch a standalone product? Can I make a standalone Excel competitor and then claim Microsof…

Reading the article, I feel this is just a corporate equivalent of a kid complaining to the teacher that the other kid is making the sportsball game hard for them. Or a kid whining about their elder sibling to their parents - "No fair! I had this idea first! My idea my idea my idea! Mom, dad, do something!". Parents will discretely roll their eyes, make a small show of telling the elder kid to behave, so that elder k…

You forgot the prefix "speaking out of a bias for MS".

Chat app wasn't bundled with office. The base version only came with word, excel and powerpoint. MS is striving to make Teams a default Windows app. It is a default Office app today. Which means you're forced into it as an org with a need for some doc tools. It works poorly on all other OSes. It is simple to synergize between other MS tools but other synergiez magically work poorly (attach file, highlight bash syntax).

Sure, someone who isn't proficient in law _may_ miss these oversteps. Additionally, the US is heavily plagued by corp corruption (aka lobbying) and they'll always signal the OK sign. Luckily, the EU is more mature in the domain of privacy and free market where shady practices are fought early on (relatively). Rather than after it is too late and a large corp killed all competition.

The issue is not just VS Slack. There are a plethora of privacy oriented office products that have zero chance when a corp like MS exploits its OS brainwash to nullify all alternatives.

Re: Microsoft faces antitrust scrutiny from the EU over Teams, Office 365

#286

Post by TeMPOraL »

vladvasiliu wrote: post #181
TeMPOraL wrote: post #151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Like, why are there two different paradigms for text communication in Teams? A Teams team is a threading conversation, but there is also unthreaded chat? Teams definitely smells of Microsoft trying to compete where it can. To be fair, those are two different paradigms, and both are needed simultaneously. This alone makes Teams better than Discord and Slack, both of which - last I checked on them (~3 years ago for t…

> Teams seems to be the only one to avoid the fate of becoming the communication platform where knowledge goes to die. I wonder how many people actually find any kind of information in teams logs that are older than, say, a few days. Even leaving aside the fact that it's a horrendous experience because of the lag and messages jumping all over the place as they're loaded, the search function is an absolute joke. Half…

I agree - search in Teams absolutely sucks. Fortunately, a basic threading capability that's separate from chat helps a bit - but more importantly, search in Outlook and SharePoint sucks much less (though still some), so in an integrated system, there are other ways to browse chat history, more suitable for building up a knowledge base.

Re: Microsoft faces antitrust scrutiny from the EU over Teams, Office 365

#287

Post by vladvasiliu »

TeMPOraL wrote: post #286
vladvasiliu wrote: post #181

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Teams seems to be the only one to avoid the fate of becoming the communication platform where knowledge goes to die. I wonder how many people actually find any kind of information in teams logs that are older than, say, a few days. Even leaving aside the fact that it's a horrendous experience because of the lag and messages jumping all over the place as they're loaded, the search function is an absolute joke. Half…

I agree - search in Teams absolutely sucks. Fortunately, a basic threading capability that's separate from chat helps a bit - but more importantly, search in Outlook and SharePoint sucks much less (though still some), so in an integrated system, there are other ways to browse chat history, more suitable for building up a knowledge base.

Yeah, search in Outlook has a hope of finding stuff. Am I to understand you can use Outlook to browse Teams chats? How would one go about doing that?

Re: Microsoft faces antitrust scrutiny from the EU over Teams, Office 365

#288

Post by TeMPOraL »

vladvasiliu wrote: post #287
TeMPOraL wrote: post #286

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree - search in Teams absolutely sucks. Fortunately, a basic threading capability that's separate from chat helps a bit - but more importantly, search in Outlook and SharePoint sucks much less (though still some), so in an integrated system, there are other ways to browse chat history, more suitable for building up a knowledge base.

Yeah, search in Outlook has a hope of finding stuff. Am I to understand you can use Outlook to browse Teams chats? How would one go about doing that?

I'd have to ask my corporate IT, but I understand that if you perform enough unholy rituals to bind Exchange and SharePoint and AD together, everything somehow becomes smoothly accessible from everything else.

Like, e.g., hovering over someone's profile on Teams is the quickest way for me to check if they're on a leave and have auto-responder set for their e-mail. Or, calendars staying in sync, and Teams automatically applying a "Busy/DND" status based on your "busy" blocks. Or, from the more annoying side, how Yammer (Microsoft's pseudo-Facebook for Work) updates pop up in both Teams and Outlook. Or how the same files you exchange inside teams in Teams can also be found via SharePoint, and even pop up in Outlook. Etc. There's a lot of those tiny things.

Re: Microsoft faces antitrust scrutiny from the EU over Teams, Office 365

#289

Post by dingi »

bentcorner wrote: post #241
dingi wrote: post #234

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have experienced the same as well. I've been using team (on Linux for Christs sake) for past 3 years. Never had any major issues. Everything continues to be working as expexted. I'm using the web app on Chrome as a pinned tab since they are going to kill the Linux teams client.

I've never used this but apparently this wrapper is useful for linux people: https://github.com/IsmaelMartinez/teams-for-linux

Nope, this is no good. PWA works really well with Chrome though

Re: Microsoft faces antitrust scrutiny from the EU over Teams, Office 365

#290

Post by hulitu »

mcny wrote: post #177
skrause wrote: post #28

My employer is a prime example for this case: We use Microsoft 365 because we need Microsoft Office and use their email hosting. And then we use Teams simply because it's already included in the package anyway, even though many employees hate it, but it's hard to argue for another solution because why pay for Slack when we already have Teams "for free"? And since Teams doesn't really need to compete on functionality…

My complaints are not even big ones. It costs Microsoft ZERO dollars to remove the asinine keyboard shortcut control + shift + c to start a call. Who does that? Why is this right next to the ctrl + shift + v (for unformatted paste) What is the point of collecting all this metrics (kusto, whatever) if you don't ACT on it? My complaint against Azure DevOps: Why is there no "date" field? From what I've heard there are i…

> What is the point of collecting all this metrics (kusto, whatever) if you don't ACT on it?

To sell it later together with other data. There are a lot of bugs and stupid UI decisions which go unfixed by MS and telemetry hasn't improved anything.

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