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GCC Adopts a Code of Conduct

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Re: GCC Adopts a Code of Conduct

#281

Post by Anthony-G »

dingnuts wrote: post #153
Cthulhu_ wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The Code states, "Harassment and other exclusionary behavior aren't acceptable." > > Yet, targeting specific individuals with exclusion seems to be the main method of enforcement. That's not the gotcha you think it is; enforcers get higher privileges to enforce. Cops have the authority to carry a gun and kill people; the army has the authority to carry and use guns that civilians don't. "Take some time off" is a mo…

No, "take time off" is just more condescending. It's fake care, concern trolling, punishment couched in the overly clinical language of millennials who are afraid to upset people because of mental health reasons I would literally rather be banned with language telling me I was banned, because that's honest at least. If you're kicking me out of a community because you don't like me, at least have the decency not to pr…

On more than one occasion, I’ve witnessed a moderator of a web forum or email list asking a participant to “take time off” and the participant later came back and thanked them for it. In those cases, the communities were small enough and it worked because the moderators knew the participant reasonably well and figured (correctly) that they were over-reacting because they were having a bad day.

Re: GCC Adopts a Code of Conduct

#283

Post by LtWorf »

LtWorf wrote: post #103
znpy wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> deadlocks uh, i might be out of the loop, what's wrong with the word "deadlock" now ?

Well i'm disabled… a process running reminds me i can't run.

I see i got downvoted… precisely my point of how idiotic such reasoning is…

Re: GCC Adopts a Code of Conduct

#284

Post by tom_ »

RetpolineDrama wrote: post #121
theepauk wrote: post #79

The only effect of a Code of Conduct I have ever personally witnessed was that people were being bullied for greeting others. The greeting they used was "hey guys", and instead of recognizing that language is fluid and different to different people they tried to impose their linguistic views on others. The people who encouraged this behavior were people on the Code of Conduct committee and at the top of the project's…

I personally never contribute to an OSS that has a CoC, and if I find my organization is using OSS that has a CoC I actively work to remove it and ban my employees from contributing to it. CoC's are poison, and if your project has a "Code of Conduct committee" it is dead to me. I fully admit this hasn't been possible for everything, but I'm making great progress

It sounds like you have opinions about how the team members should behave!

Re: GCC Adopts a Code of Conduct

#285

Post by arp242 »

Anthony-G wrote: post #277
arp242 wrote: post #203

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I got hit with a "code of conduct violation" once for, in a social chat space with many people, saying that I thought "homeopathy is a load of bullshit", or something to that effect. It was worded rather sharply and I apologized; probably shouldn't have put it like that. I'm not the "internet atheist" type of person who enjoys challenging other people's beliefs in an attempt to come off as "smarter" or "more rational…

Calling homeopathy bullshit is a kind way to put it, given the potential harm it could cause if people choose it over evidence-based medicine. I like the Mitchell and Web take on it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cLoMGb5CaXE

Clearly we're in agreeance about this, but you don't need to say everything you think. "Homeopathy is bullshit" might be true, but it's not going to convince anyone so in that sense it's a pointless statement. I was wrong to put it like that in a public space with about a 100 people. I do think it's a topic that should be discussable, in reasonably polite and respectful ways, and my main gripe was that any criticism had essentially been declared forbidden.

Re: GCC Adopts a Code of Conduct

#286

Post by JonChesterfield »

ok123456 wrote: post #211
Cthulhu_ wrote: post #175

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your C compiler is the result of a committee of hundreds, if not thousands of people; every line of code used is the result of collaboration, with the actual line of code being an implementation detail. You can't have a product like this without its community, and you can't have a community without rules.

Does the ISO have a CoC? What about ANSI?

ISO does and it was adopted by WG21 (the C++ group). With debate and some people leaving the committee in response.

Re: GCC Adopts a Code of Conduct

#287

Post by droopyEyelids »

malwrar wrote: post #188

I honestly really prefer an abrasive community. I think one thing we lost with the adoption of CoCs was the ability of the community to naturally filter out low-quality or abusive (do my homework or project for me) participants, and encourage dedication by requiring new users to earn actual real respect before being given it. It felt rewarding and… real to me to participate in these sorts of spaces, and is one of the…

Im not sure I buy the benefits of your scenario.

Abrasive behavior has side effects, so it excludes both good contributors and abusives like your definition.

The alternative is more or less silent treatment, abusives dont get engagement with their “contribution” because no one has time to waste on it. This also discourages them, and it doesnt scare off helpful but emotionally sensitive contributors.

This isnt to say you dont prefer the abrasive community! I just doubt the efficacy of that approach to getting shit done.

Re: GCC Adopts a Code of Conduct

#288

Post by NoZebra120vClip »

that_guy_iain wrote: post #250
NoZebra120vClip wrote: post #231

Earlier quoted context omitted.

BDSM doesn't "make women slaves". Either women or men can choose to take submissive roles, and that is their free choice among practitioners. Likewise, either women or men can choose dominance (in fact it is popular for a dominatrix to be paid for her services.) The BDSM community (not merely people who have a fetish) is very careful about safety and respect for others. There are safewords and failsafes and safety ch…

> BDSM doesn't "make women slaves". This specific BDSM-fetish did. That was part of the kink and the ideology behind it.

Do you have documentation of that? Can you prove that it was non-consensual? Was there a prosecution of human trafficking that followed on?

I ask because I'm not surprised at all that there's slavery among BDSM aficionados, but it is supposed to be consensual, and Larry himself asserts that every slave relationship is consensual in the communities he belonged to, as of 2017: https://www.garfieldtech.com/blog/tmi-outing

So forgive me if I've misread your implication that any of this was non-consensual or forced. You didn't say so, but you seem to be implying that.

Re: GCC Adopts a Code of Conduct

#289

Post by jdiff »

LanceH wrote: post #257
woodruffw wrote: post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Again: details would be nice. People do indeed take offense on others' behalves (and probably should do so less often), but that's more of a human nature thing; it's not evidence that CoCs actually make that phenomenon worse. > Then add in the desire to drop life changing punishments to such mild things. Say the wrong thing and get fired. See Python and the stupid dongle joke. That didn't need a video, that needed a…

It's nuanced. There are good and bad CoC's: be nice here vs. we are the thought police on your entire internet history. A problem people have with them is they are being weaponized by people attracted to enforcing their concepts of thoughtcrime. I don't see anything particularly interesting in the GCC one. It's just saying it's not a free for all like some places are ok with.

There is no CoC in existence that goes full thought police on your full internet history. That's not nuance you're holding, it's straw.

Re: GCC Adopts a Code of Conduct

#290

Post by illli »

McGlockenshire wrote: post #273
NoZebra120vClip wrote: post #234

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

I know that dang hates culture war shit when it shows up here, but this is one of those times when I can't bite my tongue. > the majority of CoC documents have been templated and written by one particular in-group of people who share extremist beliefs, and so it has been instrumentalized to drive their communities further into extremism and exclusionary tactics which eject people who believe differently or have disse…

It all comes down to a clash of worldviews between those who believe that "woman" and "man" are determined by each individual's self-declaration, and those who hold that "woman" and "man" are categories based on being, respectively, of the female or male sex. There's no right or wrong answer to this, so it's not really appropriate to enforce via a Code of Conduct.
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