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Developer tools to create spatial experiences for Apple Vision Pro

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Re: Developer tools to create spatial experiences for Apple Vision Pro

#281

Post by ramesh31 »

linkjuice4all wrote: post #246
ramesh31 wrote: post #213

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've never understood this criticism of iOS. It is a fully fledged general purpose operating system with bare metal access and ability to run anything that can be compiled. Sure you can't distribute apps that do whatever you want on the app store. But there is absolutely nothing about iOS that makes it any less of a general purpose computing platform than Windows or Linux.

Many of us learned development by using a computer to program apps that then ran on that same computer. As far as I’m aware you can’t do that with iOS devices (potentially including the AR ones).

>As far as I’m aware you can’t do that with iOS devices (potentially including the AR ones).

Sure you can. You can fire up Xcode right now and build a self signed app to your phone with whatever the heck you want in it. Distributing that on the App Store is another story, but there's nothing stopping you from executing whatever arbitrary code you'd like on your own phone.

Re: Developer tools to create spatial experiences for Apple Vision Pro

#282

Post by NovaDudely »

buildbot wrote: post #150
mentos wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unreal Engine developer here, super thrilled to see Apple spitefully choosing to only support Unity with no mention of UE. I imagine due to the bad blood between Epic and Apple over AppStore lawsuits.

Apple _really_ holds grudges. After the Nvidia blamed them for their failing GPUs, they literally never shipped anything Nvidia ever again. There’s probably an alternate universe where metal does not exist because Apple and Nvidia became friends and just optimized cuda for macOS

Holding grudges is what Apple does.

I remember Jerry Pournelle on Twit.TV saying he reviewed the original Mac and said it was a bold vision but ultimately a toy. A great idea but with not enough RAM to make it really useful. Steve jobs saw the review and took action. Jerry said the 512KB Mac was excellent but that point it was too late.

He was black listed for life from having any early access to hardware for review and was never allowed to an Apple conference ever again. This was in place until Jerry's death 33 years later.

Re: Developer tools to create spatial experiences for Apple Vision Pro

#283

Post by lolinder »

o1y32 wrote: post #262
canogat wrote: post #43

Piano lessons. I’m genuinely excited for piano lessons on this thing.

Have been taking piano lessons for almost a decade now (very committed), I can tell you most piano teachers are not going to care about this kind of gimmicks. Most teachers don't even want to bother with online lessons over Zoom or whatever -- you either go to their home for lessons on a real acoustic piano or you don't have lessons. Only the most eccentric teacher is going to spend $3.5K on this toy and expect their…

Music teachers don't dislike Zoom because they're reluctant to use tech in the abstract, they avoid it because trying to teach a music lesson with a bad mic, a half-second delay, and a low-FOV camera pointed haphazardly is a nightmare.

Source: many family members who are music teachers, spanning multiple generations and a wide range of technical prowess.

Re: Developer tools to create spatial experiences for Apple Vision Pro

#284

Post by Jcowell »

bee_rider wrote: post #97
jml78 wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Part of the magic is the eye tracking and exterior cameras tracking hands. Without those, I don’t see how what you suggest would be very helpful

Surely not every app will use the hand and eye tracking. Let the user attach a pair of mouses (one for eyes, one for hand). > Next month, Apple will open developer labs in Cupertino, London, Munich, Shanghai, Singapore, and Tokyo It can be pretty janky and still be more convenient than traveling to one of six cities.

I imagine, like touch, Apple would not allow apps dont don’t work without it’s primary input.

Re: Developer tools to create spatial experiences for Apple Vision Pro

#285

Post by theptip »

lolinder wrote: post #277
woeirua wrote: post #95

I think it's very important for people to get out of the HN bubble when discussing this. $3500 is just way too expensive for mass customer adoption. Meta is struggling to get customers to adopt the Oculus hardware when its an order of magnitude less expensive. I can't see why _any_ developer would sink tons of money into building custom apps on this platform when there will be less than a few hundred thousand users n…

I'm an AR skeptic but I appreciated Benedict Evans's take on Apple's strategy here: > Meta, today, has roughly the right price and is working forward to the right device: Apple has started with the right device and will work back to the right price. Meta is trying to catalyse an ecosystem while we wait for the right hardware — Apple is trying to catalyse an ecosystem while we wait for the right price. So the Vision i…

Yeah this is clearly the right take. One proven strategy for creating a new category is to start with the price-insensitive high end consumers with a luxury product, and lower the price as you gain economy of scale.

Same reason Tesla started with the Roadster instead of trying to build a mass-market sedan first.

Re: Developer tools to create spatial experiences for Apple Vision Pro

#286

Post by zmmmmm »

jlmendezbonini wrote: post #256
zmmmmm wrote: post #251

I'm really interested to see how high level the support is for "spatial computing" is in the APIs they are offering. This whole thread is full of people wildly speculating about applications which, without amazing platform level support are each going to be a small miracle in state of the art computer vision applications. Can they offer full 3d image detection / segmentation to give you a full spatial model of the us…

Can you elaborate why you think that the Quest 3 can push this along?

So far Meta has published a whole bunch of spatial APIs including scene detection, spatial anchors, plane detection etc. [0] They are far ahead of Apple in many of these respects, but what they haven't had is a device that made this attractive to actually develop for in any meaningful way. Quest Pro lacks a depth sensor and has too small a market presence to attract a lot of developers, while Quest 2 has ugly, black and white low resolution pass through.

So Quest 3 will be the first spatial computing device the world has ever had access to that is available at mass market price (https://developer.oculus.com/documentation/unity/unity-spati...

Re: Developer tools to create spatial experiences for Apple Vision Pro

#287

Post by theptip »

throwaway675309 wrote: post #136
lnrd wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because this is a first iteration specifically made for developer to start to get their app running, so that when the consumer less expensive model will be released a couple of years down the line there's already an app ecosystem ready. It's a strategic release aimed at devs and early adopters, the consumer level device will come in the future at a complete different price point. That's when mass customer adoption mi…

"so that when the consumer less expensive model will be released a couple of years down the line there's already an app ecosystem ready." .... You think that developers are going to create a thriving ecosystem of apps when there's no market until several years down the line? Bit of a Chicken or the egg problem isn't it?

A well established dynamic in business is the “flywheel” or “virtuous cycle”. Yes, there is a chicken and egg problem here. That doesn’t in any way make it impossible to get the flywheel going. You just need to invest time, money, and energy to support/subsidize each part of the cycle.

The hardware is probably being sold near to cost, thus speeding up that side of the adoption cycle. And courting developers will allow them to build up the app ecosystem.

Re: Developer tools to create spatial experiences for Apple Vision Pro

#288

Post by brookst »

mentos wrote: post #46
Jeff_Brown wrote: post #2

To paraphrase The Economist, "This device is amazing, and now Apple needs developers to figure out what it's for." https://www.economist.com/business/2023/06/06/apples-vision-...

Unreal Engine developer here, super thrilled to see Apple spitefully choosing to only support Unity with no mention of UE. I imagine due to the bad blood between Epic and Apple over AppStore lawsuits.

Sure? Why would you do anything to help someone who’s trying to tear down your business?

Don’t expect long term love for UE from Amazon or Sony or Microsoft, either. They all know that Epic’s end game is to get regulators to force platforms to allow Epic as a competing app store. Let others take the risk, swoop in and undercut once there are profits to be had.

Nobody is going to want to fund that. It will take a decade or more, but UE is doomed unless Epic divests it or gives up on the predatory app store / regulatory business model.

Re: Developer tools to create spatial experiences for Apple Vision Pro

#289

Post by rl3 »

javajosh wrote: post #14

I'm not joking when I say I want to write software for this thing that can help you get the most out of a psychedelic experience. I think the combination could be powerfully positive (or negative, of course).

>I'm not joking when I say I want to write software for this thing that can help you get the most out of a psychedelic experience. I think the combination could be powerfully positive (or negative, of course).

On the negative side, I think it the Vision Pro just needs a HYPER DEMON port.

The reviews are a treat (seizure warning):

https://store.steampowered.com/app/1743850/HYPER_DEMON/

Re: Developer tools to create spatial experiences for Apple Vision Pro

#290

Post by ketzo »

mensetmanusman wrote: post #202
Jeff_Brown wrote: post #175

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's fascinating. I wonder how formalized and widespread this logic is -- did economists tell leadership, or did they just happen to organically hire spiteful leaders?

Anything except tit for tat loses in game theory, so it's just spiteful

This is such a weird example because of how not true it is

The most classic game theory example ever, the Prisoner's Dilemma, is solved by cooperation when played iteratively instead of one-shot

In general, lots of systems can reach an equilibrium of cooperation

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