Rust has been forked to the Crab Language • Hacker News Board

Re: Rust has been forked to the Crab Language

#281

Post by smarnach » Tue, May 30, 2023, 12:31 PM UTC

coffeeblack wrote: post #31

Interesting, how many negative comments this gets. People seem to love monoculture run by committees. This is exactly what OSS is all about. Take a code base and develop it into different directions. Both code and organization. And "natural selection" will have some forks die and others strife.

The thing is, nothing is developed in a different direction here. The fork simply merges upstream changes, and has no current plans of revert introducing any technical differences. It's a spoon, not a fork.

I think it's an important aspect of free software that it can be forked. That doesn't me we need to celebrate all forks. Some are great. Some cause more harm than good. But most are simply irrelevant. This one appears to be in that last category.

Re: Rust has been forked to the Crab Language

#282

Post by jbirer » Tue, May 30, 2023, 12:32 PM UTC

pietro72ohboy wrote: post #66

codeflo wrote: post #35

For anyone critizing this: From the trademark bullshit to the conference drama, it's clear at this point that someone with influence in the Rust foundation is behaving like an asshole and damaging the project. That can happen in open source, see Stallman and others. It's also clear that others at the Rust foundation tolerate this behavior, downplay it, don't understand the impact, don't want to go against a "respecte…

> That can happen in open source, see Stallman and others. Could you elaborate on because I'm increasingly seeing Stallman being thrown around as a bogeyman who impeded FOSS progress for years if not decades and I really dislike this trend. It seems that his personal views (which I do not support) and eccentricity is being conflated with his contributions to FOSS. I will preface this by noting that this is "my belief…

[flagged]

Re: Rust has been forked to the Crab Language

#283

Post by dale_glass » Tue, May 30, 2023, 12:33 PM UTC

esarbe wrote: post #269

dale_glass wrote: post #208

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Okay, but Stallman's non-purity related bad qualities are a problem for his own mission. Eg, Stallman is reported as creeping women out in the link above. That has nothing to do with his uncompromising ideals regarding software. So maybe Stallman could quietly retire to some sort of metaphorical ivory tower, and keep producing uncompromising ideology, which could be then evangelized by somebody less creepy. There's n…

It would be good if you would not repeat unsubstantiated rumors. No credible allegation have brought forward against Stallman's behavior regarding women. It's all hearsay and we should avoid hearsay and rumors.

I don't mean to imply he committed a crime. I'm saying that he's odd and offputting to many people, which is hardly news. And while I've not seen him recently in person, everything I've read firmly indicate that he's very stuck in the past and his manners are not up to modern standards.

Re: Rust has been forked to the Crab Language

#284

Post by lordswork » Tue, May 30, 2023, 12:34 PM UTC

y7 wrote: post #6

The main website has an explanation for the reasons behind this: https://crablang.org/ More context: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35583089

Even more context: https://github.com/crablang/crab/issues/14

Re: Rust has been forked to the Crab Language

#285

Post by pjmq » Tue, May 30, 2023, 12:34 PM UTC

I have absolutely 0 problems with them forking Rust off under a new moniker but "Crab lang" is an abomination of a name.

Re: Rust has been forked to the Crab Language

#286

Post by AwaAwa » Tue, May 30, 2023, 12:35 PM UTC

teekert wrote: post #235

CoastalCoder wrote: post #227

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's the Cavill reference?

Henry Cavill is vocal (but kind and respecting) and an "ideologically pure" geek, in the sense that he seems to try and change scripts of series and movies he plays in, where they overlap with his nerdiness, ie [0], but there are more references. Of course, this is true in so far as geekiness can be seen as an ideology, if so, Cavill is pretty pure and vocal, but also just a great guy it seems. Now he’s going for a W…

Considering the hate against him by the entrenched non-fans that are seeking profit off the franchise, it is pretty obvious what his 'compromising' 'kind' ways got him. That he was well paid, and can use that as insulation is very much an outlier to the way things usually go, i.e. tar and feathering of Stallman.

Re: Rust has been forked to the Crab Language

#287

Post by marcinzm » Tue, May 30, 2023, 12:37 PM UTC

agilob wrote: post #36

coffeeblack wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Forking is an essential feature in OSS, its what OSS is all about.

Yes, because it worked out well for Java.

Seems to have worked well enough for OpenBSD, OpenOffice (and then LibreOffice from that), Jenkins, OpenSSH, Apache Server, WordPress, Inkscape, Webkit and Xorg.

Re: Rust has been forked to the Crab Language

#288

Post by zeteo » Tue, May 30, 2023, 12:39 PM UTC

coffeeblack wrote: post #31

Interesting, how many negative comments this gets. People seem to love monoculture run by committees. This is exactly what OSS is all about. Take a code base and develop it into different directions. Both code and organization. And "natural selection" will have some forks die and others strife.

Maybe it will develop into a true fork as you say. Right now it seems rather aimed towards influencing the committee in favor of a different type of monoculture.

Re: Rust has been forked to the Crab Language

#289

Post by xoac » Tue, May 30, 2023, 12:43 PM UTC

codeflo wrote: post #35

For anyone critizing this: From the trademark bullshit to the conference drama, it's clear at this point that someone with influence in the Rust foundation is behaving like an asshole and damaging the project. That can happen in open source, see Stallman and others. It's also clear that others at the Rust foundation tolerate this behavior, downplay it, don't understand the impact, don't want to go against a "respecte…

The only thing this fork promises is even more drama.

Re: Rust has been forked to the Crab Language

#290

Post by raxxorraxor » Tue, May 30, 2023, 12:43 PM UTC

toyg wrote: post #167

arp242 wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wrote about this a few years ago in [1]. I think some of the more recent personal attacks have been unfair and misguided, but criticism of Stallman goes back decades. Why does X use the MIT license and not GPL? Because they found Stallman too difficult to talk to (see quote in the article). Many prominent people involved in Free Software have been at odds with Stallman for a long time. When I first heard of Stallma…

> A wiser and less ego-centric Stallman would have stepped back decades ago. I don't agree. For all his limits, Stallman maintained an ideological purity that is required to firmly signpost one end of the Overton window. Opensource licenses and projects can mix and match rights and regulations, but you will always have an unwatered GPL option, there to remind people of what the original ideal looked like. Compare the…

I agree. Stallman can be subborn and arrogant and he often rubs people the wrong way. It is a character flaw just as it is a character flaw to not be able to seperate these issues from the ideas proposed. People that demand a sanitized environment have their flaws as well and I believe them to be far more detrimental.

People demanding his resignation would probably have installed a far less effective and competent leader. I also thought about Mozilla here that tried to set a new course which is as pale as the next corporate environment.

People that tarred Stallman certainly would be insufficient in any leadership position even with Stallmans perhaps very eccentric flaws.