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Ask HN: Why do some people not communicate clearly?

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Re: Ask HN: Why do some people not communicate clearly?

#281

Post by nautilius »

eej71 wrote: post #269
cdavid wrote: post #223

A crucial point not mentioned yet: cross cultural issues. In an American culture, it is "self-evident" that clear communication is about being direct and to the point. But this is far from universal. More generally, western cultures tend to conflate earnest and truth. "Telling it like it is" is valued. We don't realize our own "phoniness". I have witnessed countless times people hitting a wall in meetings and other s…

I'm an American and I think one mistake we Americans make is that we think we are very direct, but there is a lot of indirectness in some of our communication habits. This is particularly true in other parts of the country. As a native born midwestern, there are some indirect habits there and I'd say the west coast as its own too. So we're mostly direct, but there is some indirectness that we are at times blind to.

Biggest source of conflict I've seen is when an American who thinks they're direct meets someone who actually is.

Re: Ask HN: Why do some people not communicate clearly?

#282

Post by manmal »

pdntspa wrote: post #225

One of the things I've struggled with in my communications with nontechnicals is that they often want simple answers to complex questions, when that simple answer often hides important details that might make it incorrect, dishonest, or disingenuous. I think people should generally fight this need for simple answers... the world is a messy place, and if you're turning to a practitioner of said mess for advice then yo…

No answer is ever fully comprehensive though. Even your complex answer is just a very shallow attempt at one, because there‘s always another layer or angle to consider. So, I don’t find it disingenuous to give a simple answer. It’s just a slightly less detailed one than the one I might have used with a technical person.

Re: Ask HN: Why do some people not communicate clearly?

#283

Post by thfuran »

lesuorac wrote: post #109
nmstoker wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's such a shame when people aren't comfortable admitting they don't know something. Often it's way more valuable to know that, and safer in many cases too!

Safer when? Guessing the right answer in school was always acceptable. Just sitting silently always made the teacher upset. People are trained for ~10 years to just guess/make stuff up when they don't know.

>Safer when?

Certainly any time where the work output could potentially harm someone if it's incorrect. Arguably also any time where producing incorrect output or wasting a bunch of time could adversely impact your or a colleague's career. All in all, rather often.

Re: Ask HN: Why do some people not communicate clearly?

#284

Post by balderdash »

I find a lot of poor communication is driven by 1)“interpretation” by the receiver of the query, 2) by the fear of saying I don’t know or an answer perceived to be received negatively (e.g. “no”), 3) or by people who want to give you what they perceive to be the “answer”, when you are in fact seeking to understand intermediate facts or context.

Re: Ask HN: Why do some people not communicate clearly?

#285

Post by BeetleB »

roxgib wrote: post #272
awillen wrote: post #232

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or just keep hammering away with the same question until you get an answer. "What's 2+2"? In response, the person explains how addition is. "Okay, thanks for that context, but I don't think we ever actually got to the original question - what's 2+2?" The person tells you a story about something cute their kid did when learning addition. "Again, I think we're getting off track - can you please tell me what 2+2 is?" If…

Unfortunately it's not always socially appropriate to do this, no matter how annoying the other person is being.

It's a workplace situation, and I think it's appropriate to say:

"I've asked four times what 2+2 is, and you've told me several stories about addition but haven't answered the question. Is there some reason you're not able to tell me what 2+2 is?"

In a party, perhaps not.

I've often phrased it as:

"I've asked four times what 2+2 is, and I still don't have an answer to that question. I'm afraid I cannot proceed with X until I know the answer to that question."

Often, though, I've found that simply putting the burden on the other party unblocks them. It shifts their mindset from "I need to answer a question" (which they think they did) to "I need to solve this problem" (which they realize they haven't).

"We need X. Can you sort it out?"

Re: Ask HN: Why do some people not communicate clearly?

#286

Post by cdavid »

zwkrt wrote: post #274
eej71 wrote: post #269

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm an American and I think one mistake we Americans make is that we think we are very direct, but there is a lot of indirectness in some of our communication habits. This is particularly true in other parts of the country. As a native born midwestern, there are some indirect habits there and I'd say the west coast as its own too. So we're mostly direct, but there is some indirectness that we are at times blind to.

As a mildly autistic person who grew up in the Midwest, my understanding is that it is not at all direct haha. East coast is much more abrasive and easier to get. If someone things you’re an ass they’ll let you know. And you can let them know why they’re wrong in a loud back-and forth. Then laugh and get a drink. In the Midwest people are too polite to say anything. Many midwesterners will bear an annoyance for years…

The east coast/west coast is super striking. A few American friends were surprised when I told them I thought East/West coast divide was wider than e.g. NY/France, culture-wise. New York always felt like a more culturally diverse, bigger, English speaking Paris.

When I am in Japan, there is an obvious "this is not Kansas anymore" aspect. I love it, I lived there > 10 years but I don't need any effort to know I am like a fish out of the water.

On the other hand, California or Texas are still just unsettling, in an "uncanny valley" / twilight zone kind of way. Everything is "almost" the same, but yet so many small things that add up to a strange feeling. I guess American from a western culture background would feel the same when coming to Europe ? Not sure.

Re: Ask HN: Why do some people not communicate clearly?

#287

Post by spydum »

avisser wrote: post #224
tomg wrote: post #220

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> For example, if someone asked: "can you unbatch those 1k RPCs?" "Can we do _________?" is the worst question to ask me as an engineer. Like, yes, we probably _can_ do literally almost anything, with enough hours and money. But what's the budget? What really is _______? Eg: If it's "analytics to a page", what do we want to track? Where does the data go? How do people view the data? I need to know the answer to those…

One thing I love at my current job is people embracing the X/Y question terms. People will frequently ask on Slack, "How do I do X?" and immediately follow up with "I'm asking because in implementing process Y, it seems like I need an X." Helps so much getting to the root of the issue.

omg yes. state the underlying goal to achieve and detail how you intend to go about it and seek help. i dont know how many problems i helped solve only to find out the underlying problem was already solved in another way.

ive learned to ask that as my first follow up question for random requests for help: is this the real problem or are you trying to solve a different higher level problem

Re: Ask HN: Why do some people not communicate clearly?

#288

Post by khazhoux »

thom wrote: post #254
khazhoux wrote: post #242

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And yet some people just can’t communicate well with any of their co-workers, and that’s what we’re discussing here.

Your comments elsethread are further examples of someone ignoring (and apparently attempting to throw under the bus) co-workers who are trying to provide important, actionable context.

Sometimes one just needs a direct answer to a question. In fact, it’s a common anti-pattern of effective communication, to think that “more detail (all the detail) is always better.” Sometimes we just need an answer to the question, and will ask follow-ups as needed.

I find a correlation actually where people who struggle to give clear answers/explanations, struggle in their own decision-making. They get ensnarled into ever-deepening details and can’t cut through them to make actual progress.

Re: Ask HN: Why do some people not communicate clearly?

#289

Post by karmakaze »

In a word: Context.

> don't directly address the point of your question / provide a much complex answer (or even worse, a non-answer) to a simple question

Understood the question, and without acknowledging the immediate implications, goes on to spell out the pictures that pop into their mind without sharing context for it.

> don't stay focused to the point of the discussion

In their mind, they are following the discussion to where it naturally leads. They only failed to connect the dots by providing context.

> don't have some level of clarity in their train of thought and speech

This one's hit or miss. Maybe they do have something that ties together what they're talking about but haven't shared it clearly. Other times, they're just rambling on.

> generally over-complicate matters by wandering off to other related subjects and extending the scope of the discussion

Continuation of two points above. If there were more sync-points where participants would be clear about what they acknowledge and agree on, acknowledge and disagree on, then they could get to why/where there are discrepancies in their viewpoints. Unfortunately many are unable to express why/what their objections arise from and are gut reactions which may be valid but difficult to name.

I think an effective way to fix this conversation pattern is to adopt "Yes, and ..." rather than the unspoken 'ok' then spoken "But ...".

Re: Ask HN: Why do some people not communicate clearly?

#290

Post by nmstoker »

bauble wrote: post #172
nmstoker wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's such a shame when people aren't comfortable admitting they don't know something. Often it's way more valuable to know that, and safer in many cases too!

Usually, people asking me questions don't want to hear "I don't know.". They want me to dedicate myself to solving their issue.

Unless there's something particularly special going on, presumably you could tell them the truth as it is initially (ie you don't know at that point) and not have that jeopardise dedicating yourself to solving their issue as soon as possible, when you'll give them a final answer.
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