Earlier quoted context omitted.
The value of test prep is way, way overblown. Besides, the idea that you have to be wealthy to avail yourself of test prep is absurd. I buy books at the thrift store all the time, and there are always test prep books there for a couple dollars. The local public library has them for free. yootoob is loaded with test prep videos. There are no excuses. If you want to prep for the test, 1. read lots of books meant for ad…
> Besides, the idea that you have to be wealthy to avail yourself of test prep is absurd. I buy books at the thrift store all the time, and there are always test prep books there for a couple dollars [...] There are no excuses. Not quite. You have assumed that money is the only barrier, but that is not the case. Arguing that "test prep is free - or nearly free - so anyone must be able to prep", doesn't account for th…
Colleges that ditched admission tests find it harder to fairly choose students
281–290 of 602 posts
Re: Colleges that ditched admission tests find it harder to fairly choose students
#282What surprises me is how many Asians support these measures. Make no mistake: our ability to progress as we have in America has depended on the fact that objective metrics cannot easily be gamed. The cost of test prep is a minor barrier to entry compared to the cultural knowledge required to write an essay that moves a WASP admissions officer, or the social capital and connections required to get involved in charitab…
When I was in high school we were advised, in no uncertain terms, that the mixed race students should not hesitate to identify with their Non-White ancestry on their application and that doing so gives them an advantage.
Universities and Colleges are all about diversity and I can’t imagine the admissions department being an exception to this. Diversity scores also factor into university rankings and I can’t imagine there are many schools that are actively trying to be less diverse in their admissions process.
I don’t follow the logic of needing social capital in order to get involved in charitable or social activities. I can’t really think of a local charity that would turn down volunteers because they aren’t WASP-y enough.
Re: Colleges that ditched admission tests find it harder to fairly choose students
#283Earlier quoted context omitted.
You’re glossing over the core issue which is that universities (and employers when hiring juniors for that matter) need to measure potential and many of the objective measures do correlate but do so weakly. It’s why we don’t hire based on Leetcode, whiteboard algorithms problems or GPA. Doing better on those is a positive sign but I can get a much much stronger signal through a conversation, probing to find out their…
Who is we? Literally every major tech company hires on effectively leetcode alone. https://blog.interviewing.io/we-built-voice-modulation-to-ma... Men perform (slightly) etter on technical interviews when modulated as women, and women perform the same. The idea that women are "putting up with so much more bullshit" when we have every major university and large tech employer bending over backwards to find more women w…
I swear this is always at the core of it. Trust me it’s not as glamorous as you make it out to be. Yes tech companies are bending over backwards to find and hire competent women because we’re rare (and why!) but that statement is not at all the same as women have lower standards. You have to understand that literally no team ever is going to burn their hire on a perceived less qualified woman because she’s a woman. The desire to have the best person because the team is lazy and wants someone who will make their lives easier always wins. And not to put too fine a point on it but your average team of tech folks is pretty anti-woke liberal-tarian meritocracy so you’re not getting a whole lot social justice bias there. I guess this could happen if you have HR hiring in a vacuum but I’ve never seen a place where the team doesn’t have the final say.
> putting up with so much more bullshit
The bullshit is the culture. Look I wish this wasn’t true but it’s the unfortunate reality of being a woman in a CS major. Your male classmates do not see you as an equal. there is an in-built presumption that you don’t know what you’re doing; any normal mistake you make that guys make too just cements it. When you’re doing group work nobody listens to you and you get the “fun” experience of waiting for them to catch up and then having no recognition at all that you had already told them. Getting study groups together is awful one because guys will not let you join because they think you’ll be a drain, or they will let you join and then hit on you. Do you know how many fucking times I got told to go make me a sandwich? In more than one class I just asked the professor to do group projects alone. And that’s before dealing with how isolating it is to be the only girl in class and having the shock and head turns the first time you speak.
It’s not perfect by any stretch of imagination but I would have been driven out of tech had I not by chance landed at a few companies with older teams and realized that maturity makes a huge difference.
> and that we can show notable although weak bias in favor of women
Well yeah, of course you expect that. I just talked about a situation where a woman saying something is more impressive than a man saying the same thing. Context matters.
Re: Colleges that ditched admission tests find it harder to fairly choose students
#284Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Besides, the idea that you have to be wealthy to avail yourself of test prep is absurd. I buy books at the thrift store all the time, and there are always test prep books there for a couple dollars [...] There are no excuses. Not quite. You have assumed that money is the only barrier, but that is not the case. Arguing that "test prep is free - or nearly free - so anyone must be able to prep", doesn't account for th…
If you have a job, that will look good on an admission form. I certainly listed my job on mine.
Re: Colleges that ditched admission tests find it harder to fairly choose students
#285The SAT is probably the most attainable piece of the application process for a poor kid to succeed at. You literally just need a guide book or two and enough time to study. One good smart friend helps if you're lucky enough to have one. Literally the lowest barrier to entry for a kid stuck in a shitty school with parents that aren't around and no money to your name. Is it still a hurdle for poor kids? Undoubtedly, but I can't think of anything that can show academic capacity that requires fewer resources.
Re: Colleges that ditched admission tests find it harder to fairly choose students
#286What surprises me is how many Asians support these measures. Make no mistake: our ability to progress as we have in America has depended on the fact that objective metrics cannot easily be gamed. The cost of test prep is a minor barrier to entry compared to the cultural knowledge required to write an essay that moves a WASP admissions officer, or the social capital and connections required to get involved in charitab…
Re: Colleges that ditched admission tests find it harder to fairly choose students
#287Re: Colleges that ditched admission tests find it harder to fairly choose students
#288Why even pretend that admission is in some sense "fair"? I don't mean this as a "anti-woke" or "pro-woke" harangue, or as a middle school cynical pose. Admission in the USA is a manual and largely arbitrary process. Just like judges' rulings, it's influenced by which person happened to read the application, what they had for breakfast and what time of day it is. Plus random factors like the orchestra's french horn pl…
Re: Colleges that ditched admission tests find it harder to fairly choose students
#289Earlier quoted context omitted.
Quoted post unavailable.
What's the sarcasm? You could argue the SAT is designed for testing skills that can only/primarily be learned within the current school system. And that System is designed to keep minorities out, so I could argue there's a correlation there
go ahead then and argue using that point, I'd want to know what makes you think so
I've prepared for SAT's equivalent in my country mostly from the youtube videos, so I'm curious what makes you think like that
Re: Colleges that ditched admission tests find it harder to fairly choose students
#290No one would dare complain if the incoming student body went from 80% white/asian to 80% black/hispanic.