Liz Truss resigns as UK prime minister • Hacker News Board

Re: Liz Truss resigns as UK prime minister

#281

Post by scott_w » Thu, Oct 20, 2022, 2:00 PM UTC

whywhywhywhy wrote: post #223

hairofadog wrote: post #90

I know this topic is important in substance and the thing I'm about to say is an aesthetic issue, but as an American watching this unfold I have admired the Brits for the sense of heart that still seems to be present in their politics. I'm referring to the parliamentary sessions in which, even though they're savagely roasting each other, they're doing in a way that feels somehow good-hearted and doesn't lay bare the…

>even though they're savagely roasting each other, they're doing in a way that feels somehow good-hearted and doesn't lay bare the naked resentment and hatred that seems to be all we have left in the USA. The difference is they all went to the same schools together. Makes close to zero difference who runs the country, because once you’ve lived under both sides it’s the same thing.

That's not even remotely true. The Leader of the Opposition (Keir Starmer) went to Reigate, then to Leeds University. Gordon Brown went to Edinburgh University, Jeremy Corbyn went to North London Poly.

Only Ed Milliband and Tony Blair went to Oxford, which is where (of the Conservative Party): David Cameron, Boris Johnson, Theresa May and Liz Truss went.

Saying "living under both sides is the same thing" is also observably false, as anyone raised under the Labour governments of 1997 to 2010 can attest and compare to the Conservative governments since.

Re: Liz Truss resigns as UK prime minister

#282

Post by foldr » Thu, Oct 20, 2022, 2:01 PM UTC

sofixa wrote: post #201

bb123 wrote: post #186

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He doesn't have any authority, in practice. It has been that way since 1414. The second the monarchy tried to exert control over politics would be the second it was abolished.

Charles exerted lots of control behind the scenes while he was Prince of Wales, lobbying, receiving lobbyists, getting inside information, accepting huge donations, etc.

This is true, and yet there are plenty of other unelected people with far more influence than him. The US also has lots of rich, powerful and unelected people who exert vastly more political influence than the average citizen. That's not to say that I approve of Charles's lobbying activities, but he's hardly the worst example.

Re: Liz Truss resigns as UK prime minister

#283

Post by permo-w » Thu, Oct 20, 2022, 2:01 PM UTC

hairofadog wrote: post #90

I know this topic is important in substance and the thing I'm about to say is an aesthetic issue, but as an American watching this unfold I have admired the Brits for the sense of heart that still seems to be present in their politics. I'm referring to the parliamentary sessions in which, even though they're savagely roasting each other, they're doing in a way that feels somehow good-hearted and doesn't lay bare the…

Charles Walker isn’t standing in the next election

Re: Liz Truss resigns as UK prime minister

#284

Post by smcl » Thu, Oct 20, 2022, 2:01 PM UTC

T-zex wrote: post #273

cameronh90 wrote: post #245

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For all parliament's faults, it's still largely populated by well educated, intelligent individuals who are skilled orators and debaters. Even some of the most awful parliamentarians would easily talk circles around me in any kind of debate. For anyone not aware, a large number of our politicians come from a background at public schools such as Eton, and read Philosophy, Politics and Economics at Oxford. Institutions…

Did you mean private schools? Public school education in the UK is quite problematic.

No "Public Schools" in the UK refers to a very specific subset of fee-paying schools mentioned in the Public Schools Act of 1868 (sometimes informally includes a couple of others). Private Schools are the other fee-paying schools. What a non-Brit might think of as "public" schools are actually called "state" schools in the UK

Re: Liz Truss resigns as UK prime minister

#285

Post by biztos » Thu, Oct 20, 2022, 2:02 PM UTC

cameronh90 wrote: post #245

hairofadog wrote: post #90

I know this topic is important in substance and the thing I'm about to say is an aesthetic issue, but as an American watching this unfold I have admired the Brits for the sense of heart that still seems to be present in their politics. I'm referring to the parliamentary sessions in which, even though they're savagely roasting each other, they're doing in a way that feels somehow good-hearted and doesn't lay bare the…

For all parliament's faults, it's still largely populated by well educated, intelligent individuals who are skilled orators and debaters. Even some of the most awful parliamentarians would easily talk circles around me in any kind of debate. For anyone not aware, a large number of our politicians come from a background at public schools such as Eton, and read Philosophy, Politics and Economics at Oxford. Institutions…

> public schools such as Eton

I always have to remind myself that an English "public school" is what most people call a private school.

Per Wikipedia[0]:

> "public" in the sense of being open to pupils irrespective of locality, denomination or paternal trade or profession.

I emphatically agree that an emphasis on rhetoric will make smart people smarter.

[0]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Public_school_(United_Kingdom)

Re: Liz Truss resigns as UK prime minister

#286

Post by rich_sasha » Thu, Oct 20, 2022, 2:02 PM UTC

T-zex wrote: post #273

cameronh90 wrote: post #245

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For all parliament's faults, it's still largely populated by well educated, intelligent individuals who are skilled orators and debaters. Even some of the most awful parliamentarians would easily talk circles around me in any kind of debate. For anyone not aware, a large number of our politicians come from a background at public schools such as Eton, and read Philosophy, Politics and Economics at Oxford. Institutions…

Did you mean private schools? Public school education in the UK is quite problematic.

In UK "public school" means private school, generally old ones with traditions going back to British Empire, or subscribing to a similar ideology. Training the new elites, building character, connections etc.

They do tend to be very good schools but raise issues about social mobility, elitism etc (they tend to be expensive).

Re: Liz Truss resigns as UK prime minister

#287

Post by neilwilson » Thu, Oct 20, 2022, 2:03 PM UTC

actionablefiber wrote: post #89

cloutchaser wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

2/3 tax cuts she suggested were actually supported by labour previously. I think the mistake is more a massive communications and timing issue. She really should have announced these cuts in a staggered way, with better communication for the markets. It would have been fine. But she really screwed up on getting the political communication right.

That 1/3 makes a pretty huge difference... And more importantly she was announcing these policies at an exact time when the Bank of England was trying to raise interest rates and sell bonds to fight inflation. So you have the government and the central bank pursuing contradictory goals: one trying to jumpstart consumption by borrowing and spending and the other trying to cool it by raising the cost of borrowing and r…

It wasn't a contradictory goal.

The sect Truss belongs to considers that aggregate demand is solely a matter for the central bank to sort out, and that it has to respond to the fiscal setting of the government. Not the other way around.

This is enshrined in law at s11 of the Bank of England Act 1998.

"In relation to monetary policy, the objectives of the Bank of England shall be—

(a)to maintain price stability, and

(b)subject to that, to support the economic policy of Her Majesty’s Government, including its objectives for growth and employment."

Re: Liz Truss resigns as UK prime minister

#288

Post by jeffbee » Thu, Oct 20, 2022, 2:03 PM UTC

markvdb wrote: post #206

kamaal wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>>a miserable failure who crashed the economy. Can somebody from the UK tell us what did she do that the economy crashed, in just under two months?

Her government proposed an unfunded budget that caused a gilt market panic. Part of the mortgage market dried up. Variable mortgage rates exploded. Pension funds had to resort to emergency measures. The Bank of England had to intervene.

I'd love to know why proposing borrowing to cover top-bracket tax rate cuts sends Britain spiraling into crisis but in America that is just how we do.

Re: Liz Truss resigns as UK prime minister

#289

Post by yomly » Thu, Oct 20, 2022, 2:03 PM UTC

T-zex wrote: post #273

cameronh90 wrote: post #245

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For all parliament's faults, it's still largely populated by well educated, intelligent individuals who are skilled orators and debaters. Even some of the most awful parliamentarians would easily talk circles around me in any kind of debate. For anyone not aware, a large number of our politicians come from a background at public schools such as Eton, and read Philosophy, Politics and Economics at Oxford. Institutions…

Did you mean private schools? Public school education in the UK is quite problematic.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Public_school_(United_Kingdom)

Nine prestigious schools were investigated by Clarendon (including Merchant Taylors' School and St. Paul's School) and seven subsequently reformed by the Act: Eton, Shrewsbury, Harrow, Winchester, Rugby, Westminster, and Charterhouse.

Confusingly, "Public School" refers to the most elite (and very exclusive) schools in the UK

Re: Liz Truss resigns as UK prime minister

#290

Post by samwillis » Thu, Oct 20, 2022, 2:03 PM UTC

petesergeant wrote: post #205

raesene9 wrote: post #19

What happens next will be interesting . At this point, a general election would be the obviously correct solution. It's clear that the conservative party don't have a platform and can't agree major policy points amongst themselves. However that would require conservative MPs to vote for it, which is the turkeys voting for Christmas so unlikely to happen, so I'd expect we'll have to wait till 2024 for that election. T…

> a general election would be the obviously correct solution As much as I'd love a GE and to see Tory MPs swept from power en-masse, that's just not how a Parliamentary system works. Everyone in the UK voted for (whether they think it or not) an MP to elect them for five years. Those MPs get to choose who leads them.

Technically yes, but if they can’t form a government the King can and will call an election.

I think there is a very high chance they will be unable to agree on a new leader and will therefor be unable to form a government. Even if they do elect a new leader, if that leader can barely control the party that would not a functioning government, and they should call an election.

At some point Tory MPs need to grow some, call an election, and except that it may mean loosing their job.