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Long Beach has temporarily suspended container stacking limitations

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Re: Long Beach has temporarily suspended container stacking limitations

#281
post #270

I love how these commenters think they know something about shipping that the CEO of Flexport doesn’t (I’m referring to the person you replied to, BTW).

The best HN commenters seem to speak only when it concerns their expertise, or do so after fully understanding the issues at play.

Unfortunately, many comments are not from "best HN commenters", so signal/noise ratio perhaps lower than expected.

Re: Long Beach has temporarily suspended container stacking limitations

#282
post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How is bufferbloat related to the situation at hand?

The metaphor is that a container is data. “Bufferbloat is the undesirable latency that comes from a router or other network equipment buffering too much data. It is a huge drag on Internet performance created, ironically, by previous attempts to make it work better. The one-sentence summary is ‘Bloated buffers lead to network-crippling latency spikes.’”. Increasing buffer sizes (increasing the number of containers st…

The thing is, we're trying to solve a 90 day problem, where the packets have an 18 day round trip. And once an empty container is parked in a parking lot (without the trailer it's sitting on) you can just leave it there for years with close to zero consequences.

The downside at this point is that all the retail items for this holiday season won't be on shelves for christmas, so the damage done to brick and mortar sales industry has already been done

Re: Long Beach has temporarily suspended container stacking limitations

#283
post #85

Truckers are leaving containers all over Los Angeles.[1] Allowing stacking over 2 high is only useful if you have the equipment to stack over 2 high. A place that just stacks empty containers 2 high probably only has large forklifts. The special equipment for high stacking is far more expensive, and only bought if you need it.[2] A more useful proposal is a "peel pile".[3] This is a system which assigns outgoing truc…

> Allowing stacking over 2 high is only useful if you have the equipment to stack over 2 high. These are empty containers that are getting unloaded and stacked in order to free up the truck and its chassis for another load. The equipment for doing that stacking/unstacking is called an Empty Container Stacker [1]. These are different from a Reach Stacker [2] which will have much less vertical reach and are also differ…

Okay, how many empty container stackers are there in LA county?

Re: Long Beach has temporarily suspended container stacking limitations

#284
Why has this obvious solution taken 3 months and a boat tour from a startup CEO to implement? Do not elect incompetent mouth breathers into local governments, folks. When such people run unopposed (or when all the alternatives suck about as hard) I write in Mickey Mouse. If this was a trend, Mickey would hold most of the elected offices in this country.

Re: Long Beach has temporarily suspended container stacking limitations

#285
post #85

Truckers are leaving containers all over Los Angeles.[1] Allowing stacking over 2 high is only useful if you have the equipment to stack over 2 high. A place that just stacks empty containers 2 high probably only has large forklifts. The special equipment for high stacking is far more expensive, and only bought if you need it.[2] A more useful proposal is a "peel pile".[3] This is a system which assigns outgoing truc…

> This is a system which assigns outgoing trucks an easily accessible container to deliver, rather than a specific container that has to be retrieved. This is such an obvious thing. Do they really have people so incompetent they didn't think of that? Wow

There are truck driver shortages too. It’s a crappy deal for a truck driver to take a load which they don’t know it’s risks/payout or how long of a drive they will be taking, what they’ll do at destination, or if they’ll have a return trip.

Odds are you could offer truckers a special premium flat rate to clear the blockage - but it wouldn’t be sustainable.

Re: Long Beach has temporarily suspended container stacking limitations

#286

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Allowing stacking over 2 high is only useful if you have the equipment to stack over 2 high. These are empty containers that are getting unloaded and stacked in order to free up the truck and its chassis for another load. The equipment for doing that stacking/unstacking is called an Empty Container Stacker [1]. These are different from a Reach Stacker [2] which will have much less vertical reach and are also differ…

Okay, how many empty container stackers are there in LA county?

Plenty. That isn't actually the important question or rather important problem. The storage yards are currently stacked X x Y x 2 and now they need to be re-stacked into something like X x (Y / 2) x 4 to free up space for more empties but that re-stacking has to happen from the edges. That will take a little time.

Re: Long Beach has temporarily suspended container stacking limitations

#287

Everyone's focused on Ryan's comments about stacking, and the subsequent win there. Amazing job, Ryan, and thank you Robert Garcia for being a man to take one on the chin (for this solution not coming from your team) and for then doing the right thing. I am seriously impressed by not seeing any NIH (not invented here) behavior here. But why stop there? Ryan suggested 5 courses of actions, and made it clear that we ne…

> I can't stress enough how bad it is for the world economy if the ports don't work. Not for the world economy, but for Chinese economy, as it's what US companies make the most of their money. What the current crisis shows the most is that just how close the US economy coming to a sever crisis, from well.... just missing the shipment of holiday toys from China. If China can inadvertently move US markets through just…

You're missing an important point here - if US customers cannot get their Xmas gifts on time, they won't buy them (nobody is going to order Xmas gifts if they will likely only arrive in January of later). Facebook has about 5 million advertisers, and a material percentage of them relies on the Xmas season for their financials to work out on an annual basis. Millions of US business have deposited 7+ figures each in inventory deposits a few months ago, with the understanding that they will convert those deposits into profit by December at the latest. If that doesn't happen, how many of them will get bank loans to get them out of this mess? And how many people will lose their jobs with or without those loans? We truly are talking about a Lehman Brothers scale of a problem, and as Ryan pointed out, the only way to fix this is to unblock the ports. So if you're eventually going to have to do it, why not do it before millions of companies go out of business as opposed to only after that's happened?

So this is not just a matter of Chinese factories not being able to sell their goods (in which case their government will take care of them as they have done in the past). This is about US e-commerce businesses who can only fall back on their banks (and which are far more unpredictable in their generosity).

Ryan's idea to mobilize the military resources would have been a no-brainer and would have already happened in at least two countries I have lived in before.

One final detail - this may seem like a recent issue, and most of us only heard about the problem sometime in early October. In reality, the industry press has been covering this since at least March [1], when the backlog of cargo ships at LAX started exceeding 20 (it's supposed to be well below that). Now it's at over 70. So it's been 7 months with practically no action until a week ago. I am a Democrat, but this is not going to bode well for Biden.

[1] https://edisonreport.com/latest-update-on-the-global-shippin...

Re: Long Beach has temporarily suspended container stacking limitations

#288
post #269

Everyone's focused on Ryan's comments about stacking, and the subsequent win there. Amazing job, Ryan, and thank you Robert Garcia for being a man to take one on the chin (for this solution not coming from your team) and for then doing the right thing. I am seriously impressed by not seeing any NIH (not invented here) behavior here. But why stop there? Ryan suggested 5 courses of actions, and made it clear that we ne…

Does he mean negative feedback loops or positive feedback loops? Getting worse every day sounds like positive feedback, whereas negative feedback would keep things steady.

In a steady system the output energy scales based on the input energy. When there is feedback, the output adds/subtracts to the input, making it difficult to control the output with your inputs. Positive feedback adds to the input, making the output increase even as you attempt to reduce the input energy. Negative feedback subtracts from the input and forces you to increase your input energy to prevent the output from diminishing.

Uncontrollable positive feedback explodes. Uncontrollable negative feedback freezes.

Re: Long Beach has temporarily suspended container stacking limitations

#289

A little off topic, but these ports don’t usually store so many empty crates, so why do we have them now? Are we not exporting at the same rate? Is that even what empty crates are used for? I’m assuming they aren’t sent back to (mostly?) China empty. I read something about the prices to ship out of the US being very high, but isn’t the price coming in also similarly proportionally high, yet we still have a backlog of…

This is very bad for the rest of the world, and also for the US, since all the empty containers are stacking up there, then there aren't any empty containers available in China or anywhere else for exporters, so even getting your hands on an empty container can be very difficult or almost impossible, or they cost 2-3x more than usually.

If that is true the rates for empty containers should increase making it worthwhile for ships to bring them back again?

Re: Long Beach has temporarily suspended container stacking limitations

#290
post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The guy in charge took a paternity leave for 2 months and no one in the media even noticed.

>The guy in charge took a paternity leave for 2 months and no one in the media even noticed. Don't worry, once people did notice, it did take long before they started ridiculing him for spending time with his family.

My comment seemed to be a little too subtle. Let me lay it out:

Our willingness to shame this guy (and other guys, by extension) for spending time with his family reflects our willingness to shame women for taking the same time off.

Our acceptance that he should put work over his family forces SOMEONE to put his family over THEIR work. In a male-female marriage (yes, I know he is gay), this means that men should work and women should stay at home. This attitude contributes to the gender pay divide and stereotypes that men shouldn't be great fathers.

It hurts our wives and our strength as husbands and fathers.

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