An enormous thread on alleged Google Facebook collusion • Hacker News Board

Re: An enormous thread on alleged Google Facebook collusion

#281

Post by mrintegrity » Sat, Oct 23, 2021, 4:55 PM UTC

willvarfar wrote: post #5

I remember when google was the shining light of “be nice company” that we all dreamed of working for, at odds with the evil that was M$crosoft. And, from reading all the “why I left google” posts and hearing about them leaving China, the old google of 20 or even just 10 years ago was the good or even just a better google. With how google went from “do no evil” to this, with how Facebook has always been profits over e…

Grafana labs seems like a company worth supporting, great products, agpl code, good community involvement. I help in their slack sometimes, I like their business model.

Re: An enormous thread on alleged Google Facebook collusion

#282

Post by truffdog » Sat, Oct 23, 2021, 5:00 PM UTC

TheOtherHobbes wrote: post #91

ttiurani wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's about shareholder value added. A public company or a VC-backed private company can focus on making creative nice widgets and services for only a limited time before growth inevitably stalls. After that (unless the management can and wants to screw over their owners) they will need to look elsewhere for more profits.

It's about capitalism, which rots the spirit of everything it touches. Money is the most dangerous behaviour-altering drug. It shouldn't be a surprise that a system which rewards sociopathy and discourages kindness and empathy keeps generating sociopathic behaviours.

I mean, the Soviet Nomenklatura had a reputation for similar behavior. Pre-capitalist societies also had plenty of corruption, graft, corruption, and destructive avarice.

Re: An enormous thread on alleged Google Facebook collusion

#283

Post by ArtTimeInvestor » Sat, Oct 23, 2021, 5:03 PM UTC

p49k wrote: post #218

ArtTimeInvestor wrote: post #208

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It seems you are looking at it from the perspective of an advertiser? Why would it be financial suicide to only advertise on non-google inventory? Isn't that like saying advertising only on certain media and not on other media (say only newspapers but not billboards) is suicide? I am sure there are companies out there who never advertised on Google property but did not die?

No, I’m discussing from the point of view of the publisher. It’s financial suicide to lose 50% or more of your revenue because you don’t want to use GAM to manage your ad inventory.

It seems most small publishers just put the Adsense code on their website. Is that equivalent with using GAM?

Re: An enormous thread on alleged Google Facebook collusion

#284

Post by mechanical_bear » Sat, Oct 23, 2021, 5:10 PM UTC

zo1 wrote: post #108

TheOtherHobbes wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's about capitalism, which rots the spirit of everything it touches. Money is the most dangerous behaviour-altering drug. It shouldn't be a surprise that a system which rewards sociopathy and discourages kindness and empathy keeps generating sociopathic behaviours.

Capitalism has always been about greed, and I say that as a profound advocate of it. Its very convenient to blame capitalism now for stuff we don't like when I'd argue we knew all along about greed being a core part of capitalism. Convenient in that it somehow absolves government out of it, and hides how we as the supposed democratic participants have been utterly powerless to direct the state towards reigning in the…

Greed is good.

Re: An enormous thread on alleged Google Facebook collusion

#285

Post by a123b456c » Sat, Oct 23, 2021, 5:11 PM UTC

willvarfar wrote: post #5

I remember when google was the shining light of “be nice company” that we all dreamed of working for, at odds with the evil that was M$crosoft. And, from reading all the “why I left google” posts and hearing about them leaving China, the old google of 20 or even just 10 years ago was the good or even just a better google. With how google went from “do no evil” to this, with how Facebook has always been profits over e…

Shopify

Re: An enormous thread on alleged Google Facebook collusion

#286

Post by rawoke083600 » Sat, Oct 23, 2021, 5:19 PM UTC

nosianu wrote: post #46

rawoke083600 wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can we trust the leadership of "smaller versions" of Google ?

The point is that we won't need to nearly as much because they don't have that overwhelming power.

i humbly disagree, if i understand you correctly, a smaller google will not be evil because 'they couldnt'. Maybe not the best example but i dont steal(do crime) because of opportunity. I dont steal because of my 'good moral compass' (thank you parents).

If we start chopping-up companies because we want to remove their 'ability' to be evil. It becomes a arbitrary target/moving goal posts ? What size will stop/prevent evil ?

Will a 'better'(moral compass) not work better ? More accountability for managers and their decisions ?

Not saying there are not other valid/good reasons to chop up companies but to prevent evil ?

Re: An enormous thread on alleged Google Facebook collusion

#287

Post by swat535 » Sat, Oct 23, 2021, 5:24 PM UTC

latchkey wrote: post #6

Imagine being paid to write code for all that.

The truth is that the majority of people on this website get handsomely paid to maintain and grow these companies. I don't think it's too difficult to leave all your sense of ethics out of the window if your compensation is high enough and the FAANG executives know this too well.

I'm not going to take a moral high ground here because I acknowledge that it's difficult to look yourself in the mirror with rigor and question one's decisions when you can live a very comfortable life if you simply turn a blind eye.

Just read the comments and you will some great mental gymnastic to justify immoral actions. This is why we need strong laws and regulation in society because without them, there is no limit in ethics for these companies and their employees.

Re: An enormous thread on alleged Google Facebook collusion

#288

Post by tfehring » Sat, Oct 23, 2021, 5:35 PM UTC

bsenftner wrote: post #222

tfehring wrote: post #217

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unfair in the sense that the buyer pays more than the cost of goods sold, but trade often increases utility for both parties anyway. People happily pay $1,000/year for homeowners insurance even though the expected losses and expenses are only $970 or whatever, because they don’t want to be on the hook for a new home if theirs burns down, and they’re generally better off for doing so. And they may buy it from for-prof…

I am talking about the relationship between the employer and the employee. That is the unfair relationship which Capitalism is dependent and is imperative they control the information of their participants.

I'm not sure that unequal relationship between employer and employee is a feature of capitalism per se - even in a market socialist system in which labor receives all that it produces, any individual worker depends on their employer more heavily than their employer depends on them, so you still have an imbalance of power.

I also don't think it's really relevant here, since Google and Facebook employees are about the least coerced labor there is, considering that virtually all of them could another job earning an order of magnitude more than the minimal living wage in their area at the drop of a hat.

Re: An enormous thread on alleged Google Facebook collusion

#289

Post by [deleted] » Sat, Oct 23, 2021, 5:37 PM UTC

mrweasel wrote: post #24

polytely wrote: post #10

Google seriously needs to be broken up into small pieces or disolved entirely. Their leadership just cannot be be trusted and the internet would be better off without them around.

Unlike Microsoft, where at least some of the business units could do pretty well on their own, if the company was broken up, I doubt the same would be true for Google. Other than search and ads, I doubt other part would do particular well. Breaking up Google would result in a lot of people losing their job. I’m not arguing that you’re wrong in the idea of breaking up Google, but I doubt it will happen.

[deleted]

Re: An enormous thread on alleged Google Facebook collusion

#290

Post by throwawaysea » Sat, Oct 23, 2021, 5:38 PM UTC

These companies need to be broken up, and regulated as utilities where they are not broken up. This particular collusion isn’t the only issue. The real issue is that collusion is a symptom of extreme market power that distorts society in many different ways. It prevents competition, hurts customers (for example undermining privacy laws), and undermines our basic values (for example most of societal speech takes place on their private platforms). Clarence Thomas and others were right about applying common carrier regulation to social media. But for things like ads collusion or illegal hiring agreements or whatever, the fix is simply to break them up due to their size. Companies that are worth hundreds of billions of dollars are simply too big.