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Police can’t demand you reveal your phone passcode then tell a jury you refused

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Re: Police can’t demand you reveal your phone passcode then tell a jury you refused

#281

Post by r00fus »

ceejayoz wrote: post #83
Threeve303 wrote: post #75

Nothing stopping them from holding it up to your face to unlock it, though, right?

Correct. Five clicks of the sleep/wake button will disable Face ID temporarily. If you're prone to keeping incriminating stuff on the phone, you should probably have it off entirely.

There's no "if" statement required. Everyone should disable their phone when encountering law enforcement unless they're using it to record (and it's a burner). Who knows how corrupt that particular LE is and what agenda they are following.

Re: Police can’t demand you reveal your phone passcode then tell a jury you refused

#282

Post by refurb »

pdimitar wrote: post #53

Formally the police can't demand a lot of stuff. Informally, they'll put you in a room and tell you that they have the legal right to keep you anywhere from 24 to 72 hours in there and they definitely can make you reconsider during that period -- to put it very mildly. Hint: some cops are really good in the skill of inflicting pain to people without lasting medical trace to prove it afterwards. Until there's true acc…

How does transparency help? If cops have a legal right to hold you for 72 hours that doesn’t change if more transparency happens.

Re: Police can’t demand you reveal your phone passcode then tell a jury you refused

#283

Post by pdimitar »

kspacewalk2 wrote: post #272
pdimitar wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not an argument. It's a stated observation. You can question it until the end of time, won't change something that already happened. Why are we doing this at all? You add absolutely nothing to the discussion, except maybe question if I haven't imagined things.

I simply observed that, without a lot of elaboration, it is you with your claims that added nothing to the discussion, despite appearing to do so. Saying wild things with no elaboration and evidence is worse than adding nothing, in fact. It's subtracting, or detracting from the conversation. Discussions in higher-quality forums sometimes involve calling out such lazy third-person maybe-accounts presented as valid dis…

You can keep repeating the same things, I don't mind.

I'll say again as well: I stated things that are impossible to prove in an internet forum. I've admitted I got no solid proof -- you can just say that you don't believe me and that could have been the end of it.

Why do you continue is beyond me. I already said that I haven't stated a fact. If you think I should not post anecdotal evidence then please, by all means, pester the mods to delete EVERY SINGLE ANECDOTAL EVIDENCE posted here on HN. Let me not stop you.

Re: Police can’t demand you reveal your phone passcode then tell a jury you refused

#284

Post by [deleted] »

gkop wrote: post #222
genericuser314 wrote: post #194

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Anecdotally, I can confirm that my employer requires me to: 1.) Not allow my phone to be unlocked by fingerprint/face. 2.) Not carry USB sticks or similar portable storage devices on my person, to only transport them by courier. 3.) Not unlock my computer for anyone, including the police, unless directed to by our compliance office. Or it's breach of contract and they can reclaim part of my compensation. I don't work…

Yikes, I hope you are well paid! (Re: 1 and 3. 2 is table stakes in this day and age. In fact re: 2, would you be willing to share a scenario that calls for sneakernet by courier vs a network storage/transfer?)

[deleted]

Re: Police can’t demand you reveal your phone passcode then tell a jury you refused

#285

Post by [deleted] »

gkop wrote: post #222
genericuser314 wrote: post #194

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Anecdotally, I can confirm that my employer requires me to: 1.) Not allow my phone to be unlocked by fingerprint/face. 2.) Not carry USB sticks or similar portable storage devices on my person, to only transport them by courier. 3.) Not unlock my computer for anyone, including the police, unless directed to by our compliance office. Or it's breach of contract and they can reclaim part of my compensation. I don't work…

Yikes, I hope you are well paid! (Re: 1 and 3. 2 is table stakes in this day and age. In fact re: 2, would you be willing to share a scenario that calls for sneakernet by courier vs a network storage/transfer?)

[deleted]

Re: Police can’t demand you reveal your phone passcode then tell a jury you refused

#286

Post by lr4444lr »

ineptech wrote: post #277
BobbyJo wrote: post #251

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's also amazing the amount of people who have never dealt with cops who think it's a giant, unthinking, unfeeling blob, and make broad generalizations about how it behaves and what its flaws are. I've dealt with lots of cops for minor stuff (trespassing, traffic infractions, crashed parties), and have only had a bad experience (turned out fine anyway) once. I have several relatives who have been in and out of the s…

Every profession has abusive people; it's a structural issue when a profession can't or won't weed them out.

What profession has an effective method of weeding out abusive people?

Re: Police can’t demand you reveal your phone passcode then tell a jury you refused

#287

Post by pdimitar »

rootusrootus wrote: post #250
pdimitar wrote: post #220

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Which is why I refuse to travel outside of the Schengen area. Even if I'd really like to visit the US one day once corona passes, there is absolutely no way I'll consent to essentially a digital striptease search with orifice controls. Same here. I am curious about the USA but after reading and hearing a bunch of stories... really, no thanks. I know chances are slim but I still don't want to risk it. > No wonder, g…

> Yeah. USA has a really strong propaganda system and it's a shame that even on HN, where people should be more critical thinkers, this is not widely recognized. OTOH, I recommend strongly you consider how strong the anti-US propaganda is online, including on places like Reddit and HN. It's an entire art form now, how to be critical of the US in every possible way. Whether it's cops, health care, or imperial measurem…

> The reality in the US is much different than portrayed on here, and you ought to be aware of that.

I agree and I admit I've never even been there. But even when chatting with Americans -- here included -- the culture and thinking differences are immediately apparent.

I don't actively seek out any anti-anything propaganda, and started disengaging myself from political discussions lately (this thread is the shameful exception, sadly).

I can't claim I am completely unbiased, sure. But I am mostly commenting on impressions I have from hundreds of interactions, virtual and physical.

Re: Police can’t demand you reveal your phone passcode then tell a jury you refused

#288

Post by kingcharles »

codezero wrote: post #137
colinmhayes wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Rikers is a jail, not a prison. Jails are meant to hold people who have not yet completed their trial. Once you're convicted you get sent to prison.

Exactly the point. The police can waste your time. Those people can’t go to work and will likely lose their job because they are being jammed up by police.

I just spent 8 years in the county jail while the police wasted my time to try and get a conviction out of me. They offered to let me walk free on my first court date if I plead guilty, but I refused, so I did 8 years locked up. I'm actually still in custody now, just not at the jail. Might be in custody for another couple of years until the case is dismissed.

Looking at the statistics for Cook County Jail, there are a number of unconvicted people who have been in there for almost 12 years waiting to go to trial.

Re: Police can’t demand you reveal your phone passcode then tell a jury you refused

#289

Post by monocasa »

BobbyJo wrote: post #251
63 wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's crazy to me the amount that people who have never dealt with the cops think "I'll just show them x legal code so they can see they don't have the right to do that." Turns out, they don't care. For minor infractions, they'll use whatever intimidation and coercion they want, then make you feel lucky for letting you out because they didn't feel like prosecuting. In most circumstances, the word of the person with th…

It's also amazing the amount of people who have never dealt with cops who think it's a giant, unthinking, unfeeling blob, and make broad generalizations about how it behaves and what its flaws are. I've dealt with lots of cops for minor stuff (trespassing, traffic infractions, crashed parties), and have only had a bad experience (turned out fine anyway) once. I have several relatives who have been in and out of the s…

And pretty much every interaction I've had with cops has been extremely negative. From stealing money out of my wallet, making up DMV issues to steal my license, to threatening my friend with jail time for trying to report a violent rape inflicted on her.

Re: Police can’t demand you reveal your phone passcode then tell a jury you refused

#290

Post by lr4444lr »

pdimitar wrote: post #125
thehappypm wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is and it isn't, there are circumstances where the best outcome is to be helpful and compliant, and other circumstances where you'll want to protect yourself from search.

Absolutely, if I travel with a company laptop and I am asked to unlock it I'll outright refuse and cite that I can and will be sued by my employer if I unlock it, and will direct the airport security to my employer's legal team. I don't want to open myself up for litigation so I'll definitely put up a fight in this case.

Your employer has no grounds to sue you with no tangible damages. Unlocking your computer for an airport security meat head isn't gonna compromise your employer's trade secrets.
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