Woman sues L.A. after being struck by car on a street where tents block sidewalk • Hacker News Board

Re: Woman sues L.A. after being struck by car on a street where tents block sidewalk

#281

Post by slickrick216 » Wed, Aug 04, 2021, 10:25 PM UTC

standardUser wrote: post #97

I've almost been hit by cars in SF for the exact same reason. Cities need to designate places for encampments to stop them from blocking sidewalks or disrupting residential areas. And they need to rapidly remove any that do block public access or disrupt residences.

They have they’re called homeless shelters. Cities shouldn’t actively endorse camping by marking areas and if you think they should would you like to volunteer the streets outside and surrounding your house.

Homeless people should be interviewed and those with mental illnesses treated by the state as they are objectively sick people in need of help. Homeless people under 18 should be taken into care. Homeless people over 65 showing senile ageing conditions should be asked if they want to go into retirement homes.

Outside of this homeless people should be treated with decency and respect as adults capable of full agency. They should face the consequences of their disregard of the rules. Punishments should be scaled but society should not feel sorry for drug addicted homeless people and actively enable them to keep ruining theres and others lives. This provides an easy scapegoat for homeless people who have nothing wrong with them.

Re: Woman sues L.A. after being struck by car on a street where tents block sidewalk

#282

Post by mfer » Wed, Aug 04, 2021, 10:25 PM UTC

kbelder wrote: post #265

wahern wrote: post #220

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That definition is not necessarily applicable to actual research studies, homeless counts, or even government programs. You have to look to the actual study or program details. Unfortunately, the applied definition is rarely reported in the media.

One study I saw of the local schools that breathlessly reported huge homeless rates of schoolchildren counted every child that didn't have a dedicated bedroom. Sleeping on Dad's couch? Homeless.

The numbers being talked about earlier (17 per 10k people) come from HUD. The US legal definitions matter to their reporting

Re: Woman sues L.A. after being struck by car on a street where tents block sidewalk

#283

Post by pauldickwin » Wed, Aug 04, 2021, 10:28 PM UTC

dyingkneepad wrote: post #23

As a non-American person living in the US, I fail to understand one thing about its society. When I walk around town I see tons and tons of places advertising jobs, for simple stuff like kitchen, moving stuff around, etc. I even recently saw a store with a "talk to the manager and start working right now" sign. And then I walk around the streets and see all these homeless. It seems like a paradox to me, but I am obvi…

In America, welfare is designed in such a way in which it actually prevents the jobless from wanting to enter the workforce. They actually make more by panhandling and collecting welfare than simply getting an entry level job. The jobless understand this basic economic tactic well, so they end up permanently living off welfare and not trying to get a job. The government does not want to fix welfare to actually work (for example, with a negative income tax instead) because it would result in the firing and unemployment of many government welfare office workers.

Re: Woman sues L.A. after being struck by car on a street where tents block sidewalk

#284

Post by keewee7 » Wed, Aug 04, 2021, 10:28 PM UTC

Why do homeless people in the US concentrate in a few big cities with good weather?

In Denmark there are fewer of them and they are more spread out and you can also find them in rural areas.

Re: Woman sues L.A. after being struck by car on a street where tents block sidewalk

#285

Post by Arrath » Wed, Aug 04, 2021, 10:30 PM UTC

gruez wrote: post #192

Arrath wrote: post #156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Have the near usurious transaction fees typically associated with those cards been regulated away, or are they still yet another way for financial conglomerates to nickel and dime more profits from the most vulnerable, while masquerading as a better option? I last had my pay deposited onto a prepaid card in 2009, so the laws may indeed have changed. Back then those fees were overly restrictive and quickly ate into my…

> Have the near usurious transaction fees typically associated with those cards been regulated away, or are they still yet another way for financial conglomerates to nickel and dime more profits from the most vulnerable, while masquerading as a better option? I'm having trouble finding the source, but my recollection from a planet money podcast is that they're free to withdraw if you use their network of ATMs, but ot…

>it's better than holding a wad of cash on your body.

I can't argue with that!

Re: Woman sues L.A. after being struck by car on a street where tents block sidewalk

#286

Post by slg » Wed, Aug 04, 2021, 10:32 PM UTC

nicoburns wrote: post #241

slg wrote: post #201

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Anyone who has ever walked around SF or LA and Berlin knows this implicitly. The easy explanation for that is the social programs that care for the homeless are stronger in Germany. You don't see Berlin's homeless as a problem because they don't have to result to literally sleeping on the street. The people living in shelters are no less homeless, they just aren't as visible.

If you're living in a shelter then you're not just less visble, you're also much better off. Obviously it's a problem to be solved too, but a less severe one than people who are literally living on the street.

>If you're living in a shelter then you're not just less visble, you're also much better off.

Usually, but not universally. Even when shelter space is available in a city like LA, it is not always easy to convince people to stay there. Lots of shelters have problems ranging from crime to forcing draconian rules onto the people staying there. In a place with a relatively comfortable climate like Los Angeles, some people legitimately prefer to be on the street. Their personal agency matters and we can't just round them up to throw them in a shelter. We need to improve the shelters until they are the obvious choice over the street.

Re: Woman sues L.A. after being struck by car on a street where tents block sidewalk

#287

Post by unthethered » Wed, Aug 04, 2021, 10:33 PM UTC

This morning there was a tent on the 2/Santa Monica 101 off-ramp not just taking up the entire sidewalk but IN the street. I had to swerve to not hit it.

Re: Woman sues L.A. after being struck by car on a street where tents block sidewalk

#288

Post by jeffbee » Wed, Aug 04, 2021, 10:34 PM UTC

coding123 wrote: post #258

jeffbee wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Abundant housing is a necessary condition for solving homelessness.

There is also an abundant number of second houses that people own that are not rented that could house every single homeless person 25 to 40 times over.

This is fallacious thinking. It would be a huge effort, practically and legally, to increase the occupancy rate of existing dwellings from its already extremely high level of over 97% to something like 99%. It is way easier, cheaper, and more practical to attack the denominator instead.

Re: Woman sues L.A. after being struck by car on a street where tents block sidewalk

#289

Post by cduzz » Wed, Aug 04, 2021, 10:34 PM UTC

tdfx wrote: post #157

cduzz wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How do you cash a paycheck if you are without an address or a bank account? How do you establish that you are a citizen and are legally able to take a job if you are unable to safely store your documents? How do you get health care, inclusive of mental health care, if you are unable to pay for it? If you are without a secure residence, how do you know when to wake up, how do you clean up, put on fresh clothing, and g…

You're right, their situation does prevent them from jumping into a white collar, professional life with a good credit score and personal references. But I don't think that's what anyone is suggesting. Most of the problems you stated are not problems for the type of labor that is offered to homeless people. Jobs for construction, landscaping, moving etc. with a truck that picks you up and drops you off. Usually done…

I would ask you to think through the logistics of managing any of your proposed solutions when you don't have a safe place to sleep or store your stuff.

Instructions like

1) leave your stuff some place out of your control

2) somehow get to a parking lot where people pick up day workers

3) hang out with day laborers hoping to get a job

4) get in a random truck on the promise that someone will pay you

5) get driven some place to do a job

6) do the job

7) assume they'll take you back where they got you

8) assume they'll pay you what they promised in cash

9) get back to my stuff, hope it is still there

10) hope that I can store my cash some place safe

11) of course, don't forget you're doing this with basically no sleep, unhealthy food, no good place to poop, no reliable place to wash, etc. For months at a time.

And of course do that for a couple months or years without having anything terrible happen to you until you save up enough to rent a place?

That doesn't seem like a realistic plan.

Re: Woman sues L.A. after being struck by car on a street where tents block sidewalk

#290

Post by spiderice » Wed, Aug 04, 2021, 10:36 PM UTC

8note wrote: post #172

gruez wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Good thing that many employers (typically the ones that employ minimum wage workers) allow you to take your paycheck on a prepaid debit card.

It's still something that can be stolen

I feel like at this point people are just trying to come up with problems for the sake of it.

Debit cards have pins. You can't just steal someone's debit card and go drain all the money. Sure there are other really hard issues to solve with homelessness. But their debit card getting stolen isn't one of them.