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Firefox lost 50M users since 2019

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Re: Firefox lost 50M users since 2019

#281

Post by jackson1442 »

driverdan wrote: post #257
gibba999 wrote: post #227

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My child's school uses Google Classroom. The Google experience is unusable in Firefox. Meet doesn't work (e.g. he sees nothing when the teacher screenshares). This seems really quite anti-competitive. My child cares about privacy and switches browsers. Chrome for Meet, Firefox for most non-Google things.

Something is wrong with their system then. I use Meet in Firefox and it works. Sometimes it's buggy but I can always get it to work.

I had to switch to Chrome because my employer is a Google shop. Meet screenshare never worked in Firefox and would always get stuck on the first frame.

Re: Firefox lost 50M users since 2019

#282

Post by FractalParadigm »

gibba999 wrote: post #227
eitland wrote: post #143

I have contacted local authorities twice about anti competitive behavior from Chrome. If two - three other Norwegians do the same that should start to look like an earthquake ;-) Same if ten - twenty Germans or Brits or French do the same. I would mention: 1. that some of their web properties (calendar and YouTube) have been intentionally incompatible with Firefox as evidenced by how well they work in Firefox if one…

My child's school uses Google Classroom. The Google experience is unusable in Firefox. Meet doesn't work (e.g. he sees nothing when the teacher screenshares). This seems really quite anti-competitive. My child cares about privacy and switches browsers. Chrome for Meet, Firefox for most non-Google things.

I was having crazy issues in GDrive and GDocs where I could download nothing using FF - no PDFs, no .docx files, none of my other backed-up files, you'd click download and nothing would happen. Do the same in Chrome, Edge, Safari, Opera, even changing my user-agent to Chrome, and it works flawlessly.

My solution to this problem was move everything off GDrive and into self-hosted options. If Google is going to intentionally hinder usage on non-Google software when no real technical roadblocks exist, I'll gladly use literally anything else.

Re: Firefox lost 50M users since 2019

#283

Post by ohgodplsno »

csmpltn wrote: post #126

I've been using Firefox daily for over 15 years now. My experience with Firefox over the last 2-3 years in particular leaves me very disappointed and frustrated. The constant nonsense UI redesigns that come about with every new update. The instability, and ridiculous resources consumption. The slowness and slugishness. I want a browser that works, respects my privacy, stays out of my way and lets me get shit done. A…

Aaaah, Firefox users. With friends like these, who needs enemies ?

> The constant nonsense UI redesigns that come about with every new update.

Firefox's last major UI update was 1 version ago. And that was a truly large update. The previous sizeable one was... version 50 ? To redesign the tabs ? Stop being a princess, UI changes. Unhappy with it ? Apply a theme and leave the rest of us who are perfectly happy with it.

> The instability

I have run Firefox Canary/Developer Edition for... 5 years now ? I have had _two_ actual crashes.

> and ridiculous resources consumption.

I have, right now, 6 firefox windows open, each with around a hundred tabs. My Firefox is currently using 4GB of RAM. And that's with a 1080p youtube video playing in the background too. What browser do you know of that does better ? Lynx ?

> I want a browser that works

It does. And better than almost every other browser out there.

> respects my privacy

It does. I expect you to answer with "but but mr robot easter egg" and great, yeah, that's one fuckup. Do we want to list just how much every single other browser out there does much worse on a daily basis ?

> Any suggestions for what to try next?

Growing up.

Re: Firefox lost 50M users since 2019

#284

Post by TheRealPomax »

hoppyhoppy2 wrote: post #137
csmpltn wrote: post #126

I've been using Firefox daily for over 15 years now. My experience with Firefox over the last 2-3 years in particular leaves me very disappointed and frustrated. The constant nonsense UI redesigns that come about with every new update. The instability, and ridiculous resources consumption. The slowness and slugishness. I want a browser that works, respects my privacy, stays out of my way and lets me get shit done. A…

My understanding of the current browser landscape is that you've got Firefox; browsers that build upon Google's browser engine (Chrome/Chromium/Edge/Brave/Vivaldi/Opera/etc); and Safari. There are a number of good options, but very few that don't further cement Google's control over the world's browser-engine code. (Yes, I know there are some other very minor players that lag behind on features and standards support.…

In terms of "browsers that actually matter", there's just Chrome/chromium at a combined 70% and Safari at a little over 18%. Everything else is a side mention at best and as a browser at least, is basically irrelevant on the world stage. Even if the companies behind them aren't (e.g. Mozilla or Samsung). [1]

They are of course highly relevant for their user bases, but in terms of "browsers that might break the Chrome hegemony through normal competition", there are none. You'd need to pull a Microsoft IE-on-Windows on Google and enact laws that forbid them from loading Chrome as default and only browser on all first and third devices associated with their brand. A few administrations ago, that might have still been a possibility, but it's not going to happen unless the EU does it first, and even then, the US might pull one of those idiotic "how dare the EU punish a US company for outcompeting everyone else" and instead enact reactionary laws that loosen the rules for them instead.

[1] https://gs.statcounter.com/

Re: Firefox lost 50M users since 2019

#285

Post by dnzkw »

relativ575 wrote: post #259
Ygg2 wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No. Stop paying the execs. They obviously are steering the ship into the rocks.

Let's say they fire all existing execs. Poach some talented ones from other tech companies who are capable of righting the ship. How much do you suggest to pay them? If less than what they currently make, how many do you think will be willing to jump?

Eich was competent and happy being paid peanuts. Maybe they shouldn't have burnt that bridge ;-)

Re: Firefox lost 50M users since 2019

#286

Post by dec0dedab0de »

csmpltn wrote: post #126

I've been using Firefox daily for over 15 years now. My experience with Firefox over the last 2-3 years in particular leaves me very disappointed and frustrated. The constant nonsense UI redesigns that come about with every new update. The instability, and ridiculous resources consumption. The slowness and slugishness. I want a browser that works, respects my privacy, stays out of my way and lets me get shit done. A…

The constant nonsense UI redesigns that come about with every new update.

Ive been using Firefox since it was called Phoenix, and this is my biggest complaint. Stop hiding menu options, my monitor is bigger and you're suddenly trying to save real estate.

The only reason Firefox got as popular as it did is because technical people liked it, and they encouraged their non technical friends to use it. If you're going to dumb it down then technically inclined users will not feel as pationately about it.

I was personally responsible for hundreds, maybe thousands of people switching from ie to Firefox when I worked at the help desk of a small ISP. I don't think I would do the same now. It's still my main browser, but it feels like an abusive relationship.

Re: Firefox lost 50M users since 2019

#287

Post by dnzkw »

mfer wrote: post #110
ostenning wrote: post #102

The main thing driving me away from Firefox is the speed. Chrome is notably faster for me.

How did you come to the conclusion that chrome was faster? Personally, I’ve found all the browsers to be fast enough.I did some analysis leg work to come to that conclusion. I look at other characteristics such as privacy.

I agree that both browsers are fast enough, and still, Chrome is faster.

Re: Firefox lost 50M users since 2019

#288

Post by TchoBeer »

mfer wrote: post #205
Nextgrid wrote: post #161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But if Firefox was genuinely better it could win via word of mouth; whether it’s power users recommending it or people having it on their work computers (because their IT mandates it) and wanting the same great browser at home. The problem is that Firefox is basically a Chrome clone at this point, all the way down to the privacy-invading features such as telemetry, so using it nowadays is more down to ideology than a…

What is chrome technically better at in a way that’s impactful to end users? The idea that the best thing wins just because it’s the best and people will share that is flawed. It basically negates marketing and influence which is what Google’s money making model is based around. And they have been successful at that.

Chrome is fast, the UI is nice, it doesn't nag you, it doesn't break the UI all the time, etc

Re: Firefox lost 50M users since 2019

#289

Post by roenxi »

mhh__ wrote: post #96
roenxi wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd work for someone who voted to raise my taxes. That is years of my life's work redirected to causes I don't agree with. Worse than someone being against me getting married. If I could swap marriage rights for lower taxes, I wouldn't be married. It is more symbolic these days than practical. I think the gays can cop it. > you are gay, or your sibling is gay, or your best friend is gay At least one of those is true.

I'm alright jack?

Possibly this is a case of poor phrase choice. I mean "can cop it" in the Australian informal sense of "Accept or tolerate a disagreeable situation without complaint." as opposed to the surprisingly wide [0] range of other interpretations.

[0] https://www.lexico.com/definition/cop

Re: Firefox lost 50M users since 2019

#290

Post by whatever_dude »

textgel wrote: post #79
saurik wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So let's say you work for Mozilla and you are gay, or your sibling is gay, or your best friend is gay, or hell: you just are willing to care about people who aren't that close to you and you know that some people somewhere are assuredly gay; and so now, you have to come in to the office every day to work under a guy who, sure, has made an invaluable contribution to the web... but also actively dislikes gay people and…

Some in the world are capable of working without being emotionally incapacitated by the thought that those they work with don't agree with all that they believe in. Mozilla is there to build browsers. Politics should have been left at the door. Instead it wasn't and so Firefox happened and then Brave happened.

It's not "politics" when the leader of a company is fundamentally against your existence.

It's only politics when it's "other people's problems I don't care about", it seems.

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