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Master’s degrees are the second biggest scam in higher education?

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Re: Master’s degrees are the second biggest scam in higher education?

#281
This likely depends on the degree and the purpose for which you tried to obtain it.

Some online Masters degree programs are just scams preying on people's desire to improve their careers. They are successful because so many employer's won't pay or promote to certain positions without advanced degrees. So there is a real demand for degrees like MBAs.

For some degrees, the real value is the additional education you receive because of the increased complexity of the subject. Not everyone goes after these degrees for the same reason. For me, I went to grad school in physics not because I thought it would help my career, but because I wanted to learn more physics. I don't think this is the typical reason for which advanced degrees are sought anymore, but at least in some cases, like mine, master's degrees aren't scams, but a necessary part of deeper education into a specific area.

Re: Master’s degrees are the second biggest scam in higher education?

#283

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Conversely, I don't even have a bachelor's degree in CS, and I haven't suffered at all because of it. I got a job offer before graduating, and decided my time was better spent earning money than learning stuff I would probably never have any use for. Rather than focusing on degrees, I think it's a lot more important to focus on learning, however you don't know what's important to learn until you actually start workin…

Funny how those of us who didn't spend more than a couple years in school think the rest of the years are probably a waste, and those that did spend a lot of time and money in school think it was useful.

I spent 6 years in undergrad (3 for MechE, 3 for Econ). I think it was a waste in terms of my career (which is SWE). I enjoyed college from a social perspective, but there were way cooler things I could've done with $15,000/yr

Re: Master’s degrees are the second biggest scam in higher education?

#284
post #257

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>This was because we often had trouble finding qualified candidates that were either already local or willing to relocate to the area. Visa sponsorship was a much more compelling reason to relocate than anything we could offer US citizens. Seems rather unlikely. What I guess you might mean is that you couldn't find qualified candidates at the pay ranges you were offering.

No, speaking from the Midwest there is in some areas a real shortage of experienced/qualified candidates. Even if you pay $200k, $300k, more, there are a lot of Americans who will not move to the Midwest. Folks from overseas, though, don't have the same preferences or prejudices. If you're coming from China, India, Bulgaria, Nigeria, Colombia, what does Minnesota vs Missouri vs Maryland really matter if you're coming…

I'd love to see any midwest company paying those numbers, for a non C-level role. Hell, even trying to get above 100k/annum in the midwest is nearly impossible. Remote work options have made this a bit better; if the company then doesn't offer you "local market rates" bullshit.

Re: Master’s degrees are the second biggest scam in higher education?

#285

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Folk_high_school In Denmark and some neighboring countries there's this concept of a school you can go to just to learn stuff later in life, as an ongoing thing. There's a whole bunch of themes (sports, history, etc), and often you can book yourself in for whatever amount of time makes sense for you.

ROTFL. This is called "Volkshochschule" in Germany. Hochschule can be translated to University. One guy from former Yugoslavia took an accounting course there, got a certificate and had this translated (to Serbian, Croatian or whatever). The translater did indeed translate Volkshochschule to Peoples University and the guy managed to secure a Professor position with it at a University. Of cause later this caused a sca…

Strange, they must have also "translated" the certificate to a PhD in that case :)

Re: Master’s degrees are the second biggest scam in higher education?

#286
post #177

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Consulting straight out of school is a really tough sell. Consultants are most often considered valuable by their employers because of their experience in a given industry. I would not want to try to pitch myself as a consultant as a foreigner with little to no American work experience. If you’re doing it yourself, sales will be a challenge.

To speak more strongly, it’s going to be impossible unless you’re a rock star.

My first gig out of school was consulting.

Heck, I did consulting in school to support tuition.

I think there are a few factors to consider.

(1) Ability isn't one-dimensional. Consulting is a different skillset than full-time work. It's not harder or easier -- you just have to be more of a package deal -- finding business, contracts, billing, etc.

(2) Interest. Most people are happier in a full time job not because consulting is hard but because they'd rather not do all those things. If you don't want to deal with contracts and billing, consulting isn't for you.

(3) Consulting goes all the way from cheap Indian contractors, through boutique UX shops, through Caltech professors consulting on esoteric issues.

You definitely don't need to be a rock star. Companies hire consultants for a variety of reasons. Some need some particularly hard technical problem, but plenty simply need a talent for a short amount of time. It's the same difference between in-house counsel (which is good for ongoing legal issues) versus law firm (which is good for one-off issues). Or if you're worried about a tree falling down on your house, you might bring in a random arborist to consult.

I picked up the skillset because I needed to pay tuition, not out of any innate interest or talent. You might not have the skillset for it, but it's not rocket science. You could pick it up too pretty quickly if the situation arose.

Now double the age, I find I don't actually like consulting very much. I need to charge about double to triple my salary to cover overhead, and overhead is all stuff I don't actually enjoy doing. It does have upsides. I do like the variety. The boom/bust of consulting works well if you have a bit saved up and a low cost-of-living -- booms are intense, and busts make for nice vacations. I also prefer not having to worry about things like overarching employment agreements and an employer owning me. But that doesn't outweigh the hassle of having to sell myself, send invoices, negotiate contracts, etc.

Re: Master’s degrees are the second biggest scam in higher education?

#287

I disagree. Firstly, the question needs to be narrowed down. The topic of a master's degree in Europe vs in the UK and in the US varies, hugely: 1) The UK and the US have a great focus on the elitism of the university name. Countries like Germany do not, a masters from a (known) university with good grades, is pretty much as valuable as all the others. 2) Fees in Europe its free (as has been mentioned countless times…

Agreed my current masters is intense, stressful and extremely intellectually rewarding as well

Re: Master’s degrees are the second biggest scam in higher education?

#288

1. You don't need a masters to apply to a doctorate program. 2. You're not making that much more than someone with a bachelors and 2/3 additional years of experience. I managed two people with a masters degree at a previous position and they weren't any better then the person I hired with a high school diploma. In fact I'd say the death metal guy with the HS diploma ran circles around them. Doesn't seem like a sound…

I don't know, in my Master's degree, the quality of the people I study with is quite good, quite a few genius types, someone I know is now studying their PhD at ETH Zurich etc, this is a top #1 or #2 uni in my country though

Re: Master’s degrees are the second biggest scam in higher education?

#289

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I used to work for a small tech company in the suburbs outside of St Louis, which is definitely not a HCOL area. When I left (to move back to a HCOL tech hub), probably about half of the engineering staff were H1-B visa holders. This was because we often had trouble finding qualified candidates that were either already local or willing to relocate to the area. Visa sponsorship was a much more compelling reason to rel…

>This was because we often had trouble finding qualified candidates that were either already local or willing to relocate to the area. Visa sponsorship was a much more compelling reason to relocate than anything we could offer US citizens. Seems rather unlikely. What I guess you might mean is that you couldn't find qualified candidates at the pay ranges you were offering.

Having driven through St. Louis (and Missouri) quite a number of times, I would be not be willing to relocate to the area. Maybe if the job paid really well AND was a really close match to what I wanted to do I might consider it. But for just pay, it's not even on my list of places I'm even looking for jobs.

Re: Master’s degrees are the second biggest scam in higher education?

#290

One reason that often gets glossed over (including in this article) is how (non-online) Masters programs are huge moneymakers as a ticket to working in the US. I've seen that in CS programs at University of Buffalo and Yale, a majority of Masters students are from abroad, especially from Asia. Basically, if you wanted to work in tech in the US, you could either: - Find a multinational company in your home country, wo…

> are huge moneymakers as a ticket to working in the US. Beyond that, the international Masters students are really subsidizing the education of other students. Every time there is some friction added to the student visa process, all but the top schools with huge endowment funds feel the financial pressure. Most narratives I read about this situation paints the picture of the students buying their way into US residen…

Seems the US government could skip the middleman by just selling work visas for $50k and subsidizing education for Americans.
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