Why Lichess will always be free • Hacker News Board

Re: Why Lichess will always be free

#281

Post by paulcole » Fri, Apr 23, 2021, 12:50 PM UTC

LocalPCGuy wrote: post #276

paulcole wrote: post #263

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I also have a right to handle their HTML the way I see fit I see this more as you technically having the ability to do this, but what makes it your “right”?

Not the OP, but I have the right to control what code is delivered to (downloaded) and run on my computer. That doesn't mean I have the right to use a website that decides they aren't good with me doing so without the ads or other portions I may block. I don't believe I have any moral obligation to make that choice myself. Simply put, I have the right to block ads, and the website has the right to block usage to me i…

> Simply put, I have the right to block ads

Let’s assume I agree that you have been tricked into following a link that is infested with terrible ads and that I agree you have the right to block those ads.

Isn’t it then your obligation to never visit that site again?

You understand that ads are how the website has chosen to make money. You don’t like how they have chosen to make money so you simply never visit the website again, right?

It’s like if you found out a restaurant didn’t accept cash and still kept going to eat there when you only had a credit card, knowing in advance you can’t and won’t pay.

Re: Why Lichess will always be free

#282

Post by GavinMcG » Fri, Apr 23, 2021, 12:55 PM UTC

jedimastert wrote: post #280

GavinMcG wrote: post #267

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even accepting that everything counts as an attack, there can't be an ad attacking your attention when it doesn't exist on the page in the first place.

I put "attack" in scare-quotes for a reason. I don't see any of these things as an "attack". If I did, I wouldn't do them.

Well then you're not really engaging with the parent comment.

The author said they "decide to direct my attention to this website" and used "attack" because they "didn't agree to getting my attention diverted."

The useful distinction is between the content you came to the website to direct your attention toward, and things that tear your attention away.

Re: Why Lichess will always be free

#283

Post by MauranKilom » Fri, Apr 23, 2021, 12:55 PM UTC

cbg0 wrote: post #240

MauranKilom wrote: post #161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Based on StackOverflow dev survey, EU salaries are roughly 60% of what you get in the US. You'll be hard-pressed to find equivalent positions paying the same in both regions.

Are those 1:1 comparisons? I know typically in the US salaries advertised are not exactly take-home pay, but before tax amounts, and is some places in Europe salaries are advertised as take-home pay.

Well it'll never be 1:1 due to differences in health care etc., of course, but those were all before tax from what I understood.

Not sure how companies advertising take-home pay would work when your tax rate depends on e.g. marital status (at least in Germany it could be off by maybe a factor of 2 in both directions), which country/region are you thinking of there?

Re: Why Lichess will always be free

#284

Post by mattplm » Fri, Apr 23, 2021, 12:59 PM UTC

almavi wrote: post #137

So many comments failing to grasp the idea of someone wanting his job/passion to be publicly available at the cost of him not getting rich. So sad.

Also a lot of people don't realize that he is getting rich with that salary in rural France.

Re: Why Lichess will always be free

#285

Post by toolz » Fri, Apr 23, 2021, 1:03 PM UTC

phoinix wrote: post #273

Donating CPU time, is one thing unique on lichess compared to other websites. When there is a commercial website, why should i donate CPU for their CEO to put another digit on his payroll? Considering that ML and chess engines are now only starting, how about making a hybrid model of bitcoin mining and the cpu/gpu cost of analyzing chess games? That way one percentage of the energy consumed of the mining, on bitcoin…

> We, men, are not cut out like this, exchanging of goods in a peaceful manner

I'm not sure what you're doing, but I've quite literally never exchanged goods in any other way but peacefully. I'd venture to say well over 99% of transactions done by either gender are peaceful in nature.

Re: Why Lichess will always be free

#286

Post by fsflover » Fri, Apr 23, 2021, 1:06 PM UTC

johannes1234321 wrote: post #275

tnzm wrote: post #259

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is there any other kind of code which can be ascertained to obey its user?

The question is who audits it etc. This will become more funny with We assembly. There review isnahrder and even if it is free software it will be ages to verify the code the server delivers matches the source. There is a fundamental control issue where a license debate is irrelevant detour. (For me this is the biggest flaw in the FSF - they haven't grasped that yet, while smart ideas would be needed)

> The question is who audits it etc.

The question is whether it is auditable and improvable. This is what free software is for.

Re: Why Lichess will always be free

#287

Post by silicon2401 » Fri, Apr 23, 2021, 1:11 PM UTC

zimbatm wrote: post #61

pull_my_finger wrote: post #6

> There is absolutely nothing positive about advertisements on websites from the perspective of their users. They eat up valuable screen space and bandwidth for something that nobody wants to see. They often manipulate and misinform. They have even been the source of security vulnerabilities many times in the past. While I share the loathing of modern Ads as a service or whatever the technical name for giving Google/…

Ads are an attack on our attention. When I go to a website, I decide to direct my attention to this website, because I believe it will offer something of interest to me. Obviously things don't come for free, somebody has to pay for it, but the issue is that as a user, I didn't agree to getting my attention diverted. The trade isn't done upfront and by the time I see the ad, it's already too late. There is also a coll…

This is a pretty extreme and entitled position. You're the one assuming that the website will offer you something of interest without any reason to do so, and that you should receive it however you want (without ads). If anything it's more reasonable to assume that you'll see ads on every page you go to.

I take the complete opposite position: if I take the effort to make a website, I'll do what I want with it. Maybe I consider your visit an attack on my bandwidth, and I compensate with ads. If you don't like it, you're free to not visit it. Unless I told you in advance that you're not going to see ads, there's no basis for assuming that there won't be ads just like there's no basis for assuming you won't see NSFW content on a random website, religious content, political content, etc

Re: Why Lichess will always be free

#288

Post by basisword » Fri, Apr 23, 2021, 1:22 PM UTC

sampo wrote: post #272

dagurp wrote: post #154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The first thing I notice on this site is a banner telling me that I will be tracked unless I opt out. This isn't even GDPR compliant.

> This isn't even GDPR compliant. Our World in Data in run by Oxford University, so outside of EU. The applicability of EU GDPR laws outside EU is a complicated topic. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_Data_Protection_Regula...

Although the GDPR is an EU Regulation it is incorporated into UK law and that hasn't changed since Brexit.

https://ico.org.uk/for-organisations/dp-at-the-end-of-the-tr...

Re: Why Lichess will always be free

#289

Post by phoinix » Fri, Apr 23, 2021, 1:26 PM UTC

foobarbecue wrote: post #278

phoinix wrote: post #273

Donating CPU time, is one thing unique on lichess compared to other websites. When there is a commercial website, why should i donate CPU for their CEO to put another digit on his payroll? Considering that ML and chess engines are now only starting, how about making a hybrid model of bitcoin mining and the cpu/gpu cost of analyzing chess games? That way one percentage of the energy consumed of the mining, on bitcoin…

What you're describing is a "proof of work" system, such as gridcoin. Men and women are not intrinsically different in the way you imply they are. That is culturally constructed.

I didn't know about gridcoin. Thanks for that.

However when i play chess the moment i smell that my opponent is female i immediately start playing more aggressively, and my opponent starts backs down. The statistics of the top chess players do prove me right. I have tried it myself many times. Against female players i don't try to play the objectively best move like usual, i consciously try to make the female player be afraid of their position and they lose by themselves.

Re: Why Lichess will always be free

#290

Post by phoinix » Fri, Apr 23, 2021, 1:32 PM UTC

toolz wrote: post #285

phoinix wrote: post #273

Donating CPU time, is one thing unique on lichess compared to other websites. When there is a commercial website, why should i donate CPU for their CEO to put another digit on his payroll? Considering that ML and chess engines are now only starting, how about making a hybrid model of bitcoin mining and the cpu/gpu cost of analyzing chess games? That way one percentage of the energy consumed of the mining, on bitcoin…

> We, men, are not cut out like this, exchanging of goods in a peaceful manner I'm not sure what you're doing, but I've quite literally never exchanged goods in any other way but peacefully. I'd venture to say well over 99% of transactions done by either gender are peaceful in nature.

Well not to wander off topic too much, but someone has to wonder, wall street which is male dominated, is it really doing economics, or maybe they are doing a form of war, a modern warfare? A rhetorical question, i don't have the answer, somebody else may has it. If it is so women will restart the economy by themselves, in some way, by creating a digital coin, embryocoin maybe. Chesscoin would be fun i guess too, but too many male players in chess.