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Voters rejecting the war on drugs is a win for public health

arstechnica.com

281–290 of 304 posts

Re: Voters rejecting the war on drugs is a win for public health

#281
post #280
post #279

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You don't need to work to persuade me that people in the 1920s were racist. But that quote, in context, might easily be read as "we don't want them to think this [because it isn't true]". I wouldn't be surprised if Sanger didn't like black people, but based on the evidence you're throwing out in dribs and drabs she expected them to stop having children because that would make them better off . Let me ask you straight…

You are doing everything in your power, including a vigorous waving of hands - "maybe she meant something else" - to defend a known racist eugenicist. What game are you playing here? Planned Parenthood is doing it's best to create as much distance between itself and Sanger, yet you're here defending her. Why?

> Planned Parenthood is doing it's best to create as much distance between itself and Sanger, yet you're here defending her. Why?

You're out-of-context quoting someone who has been dead for no less than the better part of a century, and based on the evidence that you've drawn my attention to she was a tireless advocate of sensible family planning. I think that deserves some defence.

You said PP distanced from her because of her racist views. Ok, fair enough, everyone in history was basically a racist so that seems like a fair call. But her work as a 'eugenicist' seems to be commendable and most of what you have been bringing up today has ranged from commendable to reasonable in context. From what I've seen here it seems to me that this woman lived a life well spent. I'm not seeing anything that doesn't look like a reasonable option in the modern era - it is still the case that educated and wealthy families generally go with fewer children and are more likely to plan out their family for example. I support free and easy access to abortions.

> "maybe she meant something else"

I'm happy to be a bit stronger than that. She obviously meant something else. Voluntary access to family planning tools and training black ministers has to be one of the worst schemes to eradicate out the black community that I've ever encountered. It strains credulity, in fact.

Re: Voters rejecting the war on drugs is a win for public health

#282
post #205

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I really hate to sidetrack this discussion with an obvious political rant, but it's important to remember the CIA was intimately involved in creating the crack epidemic in the United States. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CIA_involvement_in_Contra_coca...

I was intrigued so I read the page. "the CIA's Office of the Inspector General which ultimately concluded the allegations were unsupported." "Webb's series led to three federal investigations, all of which concluded there was no evidence of conspiracy by the CIA or its employees to bring drugs into the United States. .. sounds to me like it was investigated and nothing turned up?

"We investigated ourselves and found that we did nothing wrong."

Re: Voters rejecting the war on drugs is a win for public health

#283
post #265
post #23

I've mentioned this elsewhere, and I say this believing that substance abuse is a public health problem and not a criminal one, but: I'm not sure it's the best idea to give a bunch of people stuck living a lonely life in the suburbs, addicted to social media, and have to pay for their own healthcare, an easier path to hard drugs like heroin. There is no doubt in my mind that decriminalization will make these types of…

> There is no doubt in my mind that decriminalization will make these types of drugs easier to obtain. I think you're vastly under estimating how easy they are to obtain now. You're probably only a few degrees away and know someone that knows someone already, if you don't then I bet you've got an idea on the sorts of people to ask. Once you've got contacts there's a massively redundant and decentralized supply chain…

People in my family have used heroin (among other drugs). It was not pretty.

I understand and appreciate the decriminalization aspect, but I’m worried about how things will change in the future. If it is easy to obtain now, the removal of the potential of “getting in trouble” is likely to make it even easier. I wish HN had a remind me feature so in 5 years I could come back and see this comment and find out how things have turned out. I think we are likely to see increases in usage and a public health crises in Oregon, not the Switzerland success.

Re: Voters rejecting the war on drugs is a win for public health

#284

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What do you want to discuss? People have natural urge to use drugs and there is nothing you can do about it apart from trying to educate and ensure drugs are as safe as possible. Banning drugs is an idea of the same sort like banning music or sex for pleasure. Cartels make money on drug supply, because there is mostly no one else people can buy drugs from.

I agree that the war on drugs was a failure. But is your position that whatever people want to do, you should not try to prevent it? What are your positions on applying that logic to carbon emissions, letting people work for less than minimum wage, companies putting out products that people buy willingly but are non-repairable? Should government step out of those areas too? People want to do all those things.

> But is your position that whatever people want to do, you should not try to prevent it?

Are you asking what our opinion on freedom is?

Re: Voters rejecting the war on drugs is a win for public health

#285
post #252

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This may be US-centric but when people talk about The War on Drugs™ they mean specifically the US campaign against drugs and the ensuing police-state. Yes, other countries at other times have also made drugs illegal, but the war on drugs refers to the US policy specifically.

Right I got that. My point is many nations ban drugs. In fact they pretty much all do at some level. Meaning there are other reasons besides racism and thus that is likely not the primary reason like this silly "Nixon" comment I see on every post about drugs.

"War on drugs" does not refers merely at making drugs illegal. It literally refers to Nixon specific set of priorities and policies and rhetorics around them.

Anyway, China did not had the same punishment disparity between crack and cocaine US had.

Re: Voters rejecting the war on drugs is a win for public health

#286

> Cannabis has been rebranded as a wellness panacea. Mushrooms and MDMA are making headlines as therapy tools, not party fuel. Man, these guys are late to the party. Alcohol works great for treating symptoms of stress, too! Can't be stressed, anxious, or depressed if I'm blitzed out of my mind!

Ignorant comment. Alcohol has no known long term benefits. It might reduce stress with continued use, but that's not generally the point of using drugs for therapy. There is a lot of evidence that shows a single dosage of mushrooms or mdma has significant long term effects. In addition, mdma use in particular leads very quickly to tolerance and doesn't support continued use. Most users report that their first use was the most profound with subsequent uses not really adding much.

Re: Voters rejecting the war on drugs is a win for public health

#287

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Alcohol works great for treating symptoms of stress Yes? This is how it can work. If you can’t have some wine without cleaning out the village, it might be a sign of alcoholism.

It's one thing to acknowledge that alcohol has an affect on stress. But that isn't what this is happening. It would be another thing entirely to REBRAND alcohol as a "therapy tool". FFS.

Rebranding? Mdma always was a medicine. It was rebranded as a narcotic because people were having too much fun with it and found they would rather take a $10 pill for the whole evening with no hangover than spend $40 on alcohol.

Re: Voters rejecting the war on drugs is a win for public health

#288
post #281
post #280

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are doing everything in your power, including a vigorous waving of hands - "maybe she meant something else" - to defend a known racist eugenicist. What game are you playing here? Planned Parenthood is doing it's best to create as much distance between itself and Sanger, yet you're here defending her. Why?

> Planned Parenthood is doing it's best to create as much distance between itself and Sanger, yet you're here defending her. Why? You're out-of-context quoting someone who has been dead for no less than the better part of a century, and based on the evidence that you've drawn my attention to she was a tireless advocate of sensible family planning. I think that deserves some defence. You said PP distanced from her bec…

A woman claims we need to eliminate “undesirable races” through “selective breeding” but apparently in your mind that’s something as you put it “commendable”.

Congrats, I guess?

Apparently you see nothing wrong with a woman Planned Parenthood is trying desperately to distance themselves from.

Re: Voters rejecting the war on drugs is a win for public health

#289

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So what’s the purpose of them in Japan?

We don't have to explain the purpose of the laws in Japan to prove their purpose in the United States.

Japan offers an alternative explanation.

Re: Voters rejecting the war on drugs is a win for public health

#290
post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Canada had very harsh drug laws too (at least for hard drugs). And so did much of Europe. Did all those countries also create those laws to harass certain populations?

How many did basically at the behest of the US? The US very much lead the crusade on drugs criminalisation after WWII.

They were actually agreed upon by the UN. It didn’t take the US to convince other countries to make drugs illegal.
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