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Voters rejecting the war on drugs is a win for public health

arstechnica.com

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Re: Voters rejecting the war on drugs is a win for public health

#251
post #227

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Maybe now that politicians see that people are very against drug laws we'll see some of them renege on their hard anti-drug stances. I'd love to see this, but I doubt it. I've sat in on court sessions, and towns and cities pull in a lot of revenue through low-level drug offenses, and cops spend a significant amount of their time investigating and arresting kids for drug offenses. The criminalization of drugs, espec…

So change the incentives. Don't get rid of the war on drugs rewards, redirect them to things like catching serial killers or rapists or whatever.

There are nowhere near as many of those.

Re: Voters rejecting the war on drugs is a win for public health

#252

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't understand your point. The war on drugs started for a single function, and operated to accomplish that function consistently during its entire history, and currently accomplishes that function. Planned Parenthood also helps poor people have access to family planning. Sanger started it with exactly that purpose in mind. That now it helps educated people have access to family planning also is a nice expansion o…

"The war on drugs started for a single function" Really? China's banning of Opium was because of racism? There were real concerns about drugs (and alcohol see: prohibition). That is the main reason it happened. Disenfranchising minorities and hippies was likely only a side benefit for unscrupulous people.

This may be US-centric but when people talk about The War on Drugs™ they mean specifically the US campaign against drugs and the ensuing police-state. Yes, other countries at other times have also made drugs illegal, but the war on drugs refers to the US policy specifically.

Re: Voters rejecting the war on drugs is a win for public health

#253

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From the GOP party platform for 2016 & 2020: > Our laws and our government’s regulations should recognize marriage as the union of one man and one woman and actively promote married family life as the basis of a stable and prosperous society. For that reason, as explained elsewhere in this platform, we do not accept the Supreme Court’s redefinition of marriage and we urge its reversal, whether through judicial recons…

Wow, that's unbelievable. Had no idea people still parroted this BS. Thanks for pointing it out.

No idea? Bubbles are comfortable :)

Re: Voters rejecting the war on drugs is a win for public health

#254
post #251
post #227

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So change the incentives. Don't get rid of the war on drugs rewards, redirect them to things like catching serial killers or rapists or whatever.

There are nowhere near as many of those.

on the other hand, we do an awful job catching them, so more resources could be put to use there than they're currently getting.

Re: Voters rejecting the war on drugs is a win for public health

#255
post #244
post #235

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Eugenics is a broad term. There are many aspects of eugenics that make horrific government policy, but are still pretty sensible ideas. Being a "eugenicist" isn't a black spot on her record. Looking at her wiki page [0] she supported people thinking about how large a family they could support and then making decisions to stay within that. That is a commendable philosophy. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Margaret_Sa…

That explains why she wrote papers like "A Better Race Through Birth Control" By Margaret Sanger https://www.nyu.edu/projects/sanger/webedition/app/documents...

Thank you for that link. I wasn't aware of that before.

I will note that while the language is far from politically correct by today's standards, it's actually an incredibly common idea that "People shouldn't have kids if they can't afford them." This isn't as simple as eugenics.

People who can access birth control -- in part because people like Sanger fought for the right to such access -- have hope of escaping poverty. Teen moms tend to have bleak financial futures. If they can put off pregnancy until they are older and better educated, they can stop being poor and do better by their kids.

I have a genetic disorder. When I used to participate on email support lists for it, the morality around the question of whether or not you should have more kids once you have a child with the condition was a huge hot button topic in such communities.

It's a condition that most people "wouldn't wish on their worst enemy," much less their own child. It's homozygous recessive, so it's pretty common for people learn they are carriers by being told their child has the condition.

If two carriers have a child together with this condition, the odds are one in two that the child will also be a carrier, one in four that the child will not carry the defective gene and one in four that the child will have the condition. It's a terrible psychological burden to contemplate playing that kind of Russian Roulette with the health and welfare of your own child.

I was diagnosed in my mid thirties and this led to the diagnosis of one of my two sons. I ended up filing for divorce not hugely long after.

It's a predominantly Caucasian condition. My romantic involvements tended to be non-white during my divorce because it was a quick and dirty genetics test that was completely free.

The idea of having another child with the condition gave me the heebie jeebies. The idea of having a really hard conversation with some white man I barely knew and explaining the whole thing seemed like too much to bear while I was very ill, getting divorced, etc.

I could sweep all that under the rug if I so chose. I'm now post-menopausal and no longer care what ethnicity a man is because I don't expect to be able to get pregnant.

I am reluctant to condemn the woman. I am much more inclined to apply a phrase to here that one of my favorite professor's taught me: "I am the primitive of my way."

We can sit in judgment of her and count ourselves superior because she succeeded in her goals to make birth control more available. But there is a saying: "You need to be middle class to afford middle class morality" and having more kids than you can support because you have no access to birth control is a known means to guarantee that the "peasants" are prisoners of their station and have zero hope of escaping it.

I can't know what was actually in her mind or heart. Sometimes people with political ambition say what they know will sell the idea. Sometimes their actual internal framing is one they know that other people will never believe.

If she had believed that giving access to birth control to poor people would empower them to further education and rise from poverty, it may have been political suicide to try to sell people on that idea. They may have found it either unbelievable or unpalatable.

It is true to this day that the Catholic Church is against birth control (or was the last time I read up on such things -- I'm not Catholic). That was a much more widespread idea in Sanger's time -- that use of birth control was sinful and immoral.

Semmelweis was a physician who was locked up in an insane asylum and died two weeks later as the consequence of a beating by the guards. He was locked up basically because of his "crazy" idea that doctors needed to sterilize their hands. He died in 1865.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ignaz_Semmelweis

According to this article: https://www.sciencemuseum.org.uk/objects-and-stories/medicin...

Lister was introduced to Pasteur's Germ Theory in 1864, but it was the 1890s before it achieved widespread acceptance.

Today, Germ Theory is common knowledge. No one gets treated like they are crazy for saying that washing hands can prevent serious health issues, especially in medical situations (Semmelweis was in charge of two obstetrics clinics -- he was advocating sterilizing hands before delivering babies to bring down mortality rates).

We don't know what ideas would be deemed acceptable today if Sanger had not succeeded. I think it's dangerous to be too judgey of people in a way that ignores the context of their lives.

She was taking a dangerous stand on a controversial subject. She was repeatedly arrested for her work.

I leave you with the following two excerpts from her Wikipedia page:

1.

During her work among working-class immigrant women, Sanger met women who underwent frequent childbirth, miscarriages and self-induced abortions for lack of information on how to avoid unwanted pregnancy. Access to contraceptive information was prohibited on grounds of obscenity by the 1873 federal Comstock law and a host of state laws. Seeking to help these women, Sanger visited public libraries, but was unable to find information on contraception.[21] These problems were epitomized in a story that Sanger would later recount in her speeches: while Sanger was working as a nurse, she was called to the apartment of a woman, "Sadie Sachs", who had become extremely ill due to a self-induced abortion. Afterward, Sadie begged the attending doctor to tell her how she could prevent this from happening again, to which the doctor simply advised her to remain abstinent. His exact words and actions, apparently, were to laugh and say "You want your cake while you eat it too, do you? Well it can't be done. I'll tell you the only sure thing to do .... Tell Jake to sleep on the roof."[22] A few months later, Sanger was called back to Sadie's apartment—only this time, Sadie died shortly after Sanger arrived. She had attempted yet another self-induced abortion.[23][24][25] Sanger would sometimes end the story by saying, "I threw my nursing bag in the corner and announced ... that I would never take another case until I had made it possible for working women in America to have the knowledge to control birth"; biographer Ellen Chesler attempted unsuccessfully to find corroboration of this story. There is the strong possibility Sanger might have deliberately fabricated the whole story as a propaganda technique.[19]:63

This story—along with Sanger's 1904 rescue of her unwanted niece Olive Byrne from the snowbank in which she had been left—marks the beginning of Sanger's commitment to spare women from the pursuit of dangerous and illegal abortions.[25][26][27] Sanger opposed abortion, but primarily as a societal ill and public health danger which would disappear if women were able to prevent unwanted pregnancy.[28]

Given the connection between contraception and working-class empowerment, Sanger came to believe that only by liberating women from the risk of unwanted pregnancy would fundamental social change take place. She launched a campaign to challenge governmental censorship of contraceptive information through confrontational actions.

2.

Sanger was convicted; the trial judge held that women did not have "the right to copulate with a feeling of security that there will be no resulting conception." Sanger was offered a more lenient sentence if she promised to not break the law again, but she replied: "I cannot respect the law as it exists today." For this, she was sentenced to 30 days in a workhouse.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Margaret_Sanger

Re: Voters rejecting the war on drugs is a win for public health

#256
post #249
post #244

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That explains why she wrote papers like "A Better Race Through Birth Control" By Margaret Sanger https://www.nyu.edu/projects/sanger/webedition/app/documents...

I'm going to guess you didn't read that before you posted a link to it. She's using "race" as in "human race". The argument in that essay is pretty reasonable, she's saying women should have access to birth control. Which they should.

Are you sure I didn't read it?

"But such attainment is unthinkable if we continue to breed from the present race stock that yields us our largest amount of progeny. Some method must be devised to eliminate the degenerate and the defective; for these act constantly to impede progress and ever increasingly drag down the human race."

"When we consider that the mentally deficient reproduce more rapidly than those of normal intelligence, we may well look into the future with dismay. Unless a halt is called, and that speedily, our race is doomed to inevitable deterioration."

Re: Voters rejecting the war on drugs is a win for public health

#257
This is really good news. I'm so glad to see it. I'm really impressed with how this article not only cites Portugal's success but emphasizes that their success grows out of more than mere decriminalization of drugs. It's a necessary but insufficient step towards doing what Portugal has done.

This is one of the most hopeful things I have read in a long time.

Re: Voters rejecting the war on drugs is a win for public health

#258
post #256
post #249

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm going to guess you didn't read that before you posted a link to it. She's using "race" as in "human race". The argument in that essay is pretty reasonable, she's saying women should have access to birth control. Which they should.

Are you sure I didn't read it? "But such attainment is unthinkable if we continue to breed from the present race stock that yields us our largest amount of progeny. Some method must be devised to eliminate the degenerate and the defective; for these act constantly to impede progress and ever increasingly drag down the human race." "When we consider that the mentally deficient reproduce more rapidly than those of norm…

My alternative is you didn't understanding it. Throwing out block quotes does suggest you read the first two paragraphs. If you made your point using your own words instead of throwing titles and quotes out I'd have a better chance of understanding it, whatever it is.

Again, when she says race she means "human race". And she's arguing for perfectly reasonable outcomes. Adjust for the fact that the language is 100 years old and context changes over time.

Her argument is that people should have access to birth control. People, in the current era, now have access to birth control. The world is a better place for it. That is one of the best parts of eugenics - people should be able to plan their families.

Re: Voters rejecting the war on drugs is a win for public health

#259
post #258
post #256

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you sure I didn't read it? "But such attainment is unthinkable if we continue to breed from the present race stock that yields us our largest amount of progeny. Some method must be devised to eliminate the degenerate and the defective; for these act constantly to impede progress and ever increasingly drag down the human race." "When we consider that the mentally deficient reproduce more rapidly than those of norm…

My alternative is you didn't understanding it. Throwing out block quotes does suggest you read the first two paragraphs. If you made your point using your own words instead of throwing titles and quotes out I'd have a better chance of understanding it, whatever it is. Again, when she says race she means "human race". And she's arguing for perfectly reasonable outcomes. Adjust for the fact that the language is 100 yea…

Her argument is that we use birth control to eliminate "undesirables" and it's basically a dog whistle for certain races.

And you call that "perfectly reasonable outcomes"? Holy shit.

Re: Voters rejecting the war on drugs is a win for public health

#260
I still think it's important that more is done to combat the drug epidemic - imprisoning everybody is clearly not the answer, but allowing the epidemic to get worse isn't either.

> And as the overdose crisis continues, it is ever more

> apparent to a growing swath of the country that

> threatening to jail drug users doesn’t reduce drug-related

> death rates or help families struggling to save their

> loved ones. Instead, it disproportionately hurts Black

> communities.

These drug infected communities still have serious problems, the Black community for example is far from out of the woods. Drug addiction needs to be recognized as a disease.

Given how much the US has been willing to spend on their war on drugs, I think they could better spend this money giving free help. (Hell, it could even be the start to a free healthcare program.)

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