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Blanked-out spots on China's maps helped us uncover Xinjiang's camps

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Re: Blanked-out spots on China's maps helped us uncover Xinjiang's camps

#281

There is a Canadian named Jerry Grey, who went on a bicycle ride in China. He literally rode hundreds of kilometers in Xinjiang, away from mainstream tourist attractions, to remote places he himself is interested in. He was able to do that without government supervision; all the government checkpoints let him pass without much scrutiny. What he reports on is very different from mainstream media reports. One of his bl…

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L9AyqT6RC4E Here's a link to an interview with a British Journalist who tried everything she knew to get me to say the things she wanted me to say, then disregarded what I did say and wrote a whole bunch of lies. I am the guy who rode the bike and I am the guy who is being persecuted by people for having an opinion that differs from theirs - I simply say to all who read this, if you don't believe it, please get on with your life because discussing it with me further will only make you more angry - I don't lie about what I saw I have nothing to gain from doing so. I've read through the thread here and would like to put my own position on the record... I live happily in China and I like it but I don't love everything about it. I have issues that I don't like but generally, it's nicer here than the other places I've lived, so I choose to stay. I don't get any benefit, payment, visa or other bonus from China, Chinese people, the Chinese government, I'm simply a cyclist who saw things that didn't add up. I'm retired from work, so no professional gain there for me and I'm not connected in any way to any department in the government here. I do speak some mandarin but the only reason I was allowed to travel in Xinjiang is that everybody is allowed to travel there, there aren't as far as I know any restrictions. I don't know if journalists, with a visa that identifies them as journalists would have a problem because I've never asked a journalist, in fact, I've never yet met one who has been there, online or in person. Which is part of the reason for my skepticism I don't hate America or Americans, I've never been there, I have no intention of visiting but that's only because I have more important places I want to go and need to go with family in the UK and in Australia, the USA isn't on my radar. I want to correct a mistake which labelled me as a Canadian, a simple mistake ,I'm not, I'm British Born Australian citizen. I don't like politics either Chinese or otherwise and so, I don't get into this because of politics, I simply posted a few nice pictures a few months ago and people started to ask questions - when it was apparent that my travels were considered by many to be either illegal or propaganda, I became a little more vocal. Hence Global Times and CGTN both wanted to talk to me. It seems the world is full of people willing to believe everything they read in the news and if someone speaks out against it, they are immediately shot down as liars, CPC bots, paid propagandists or something else, I've been called a lot of names. The fact is, there are problems in Xinjiang, I never deny this. There are prisons and camps there too, I never deny this but there are also world recognised terrorists there (ETIM the East Turkestan Islamic Movement funded initially by the CIA and then by Al-Qaeda but declared a terrorist organisation by the US Department of State) and these need to be handled. I am no expert on politics, terrorism or anything like that, I simply say, what I saw, doesn't match what I hear in the news. You want to believe what you see and read in news reports, I can't control that, but if you want to really know what's going on in Xinjiang, then stop reading reports from US government sources because they have openly admitted that China is their enemy and their propaganda war is far more than I, a simple cyclist can compete with. Believe or don't believe what I say, it's up to you - I only want people to question what is being said and if that means challenging me, then so be it, but please don't blindly challenge me because I disagree with CNN or Fox news - challenge me with something real. So far, every piece of information I have heard about Xinjiang has come from one of three sources: Adrian Zenz, a religious fruitcake (please don't challenge me on this, read his own books) Satellite imagery which has been analysed mostly by one man Nathan Ruser, who works for ASPI, an Australian think tank funded by weapons manufacturers and Uyghur dissidents who are attempting to gain independence from China and are mostly funded by the CIA through the National Endowment for Democracy. Now, if those three sources don't get you questioning the narrative, then you are simply being blindly lead by the hand into a conflict which may be what you want. It certainly isn't what I want - I would like everyone and anyone to go to Xinjiang and see for themselves - the Organisation for Islamic Cooperation (OIC) has been, has looked and hasn't found anything wrong with what's going on there - perhaps they don't like Uyghurs, I don't know but I would have thought an organisation representing 57 countries with Muslim majorities would have found something wrong, yet they didn't. The World Bank has also visited and didn't find anything wrong with what they saw - they did however reduce funding because they weren't able to visit everywhere they wanted, not because China wouldn't let them, but because they ran out of time. And finally, the UN Chief of Counter-Terrorism has visited too, (Vladimir Voronkov is his name, you can google it) and made positive reports. I ask everyone here - please don't believe me, but please don't accuse me of anything other than raising awareness that another "WMD story" appears to be in the making. Something I would dearly love to avoid. Thanks for reading

Re: Blanked-out spots on China's maps helped us uncover Xinjiang's camps

#282

There is a Canadian named Jerry Grey, who went on a bicycle ride in China. He literally rode hundreds of kilometers in Xinjiang, away from mainstream tourist attractions, to remote places he himself is interested in. He was able to do that without government supervision; all the government checkpoints let him pass without much scrutiny. What he reports on is very different from mainstream media reports. One of his bl…

Blog post that casts doubt on Adrian Zenz - likely CCP propaganda. I've noticed this a trend in the last few months on Reddit and other forums where random people are trying to smear the guy. If you browse through his other posts, its clear this Jerry Grey is anti-US, pro-China and pandering.

No he isn't...

And, if you prefer to believe Adrian Zenz, then please feel free to do so. But before quoting him in public, please inform yourself as to his background and credentials - I don't attempt to smear him, I simply point people to his medieval beliefs. Let them judge for themselves - if you're a religious zealot then you might believe what he says, I don't think sensible people, even believers will be too enamoured by his writings.

Re: Blanked-out spots on China's maps helped us uncover Xinjiang's camps

#283

There is a Canadian named Jerry Grey, who went on a bicycle ride in China. He literally rode hundreds of kilometers in Xinjiang, away from mainstream tourist attractions, to remote places he himself is interested in. He was able to do that without government supervision; all the government checkpoints let him pass without much scrutiny. What he reports on is very different from mainstream media reports. One of his bl…

> https://medium.com/@jerry_grey2002/abc-four-corners-tell-the... . Thank you for that really insightful blog post. A very thorough takedown of that poor documentary.

Thank you for taking the time to read it. The documentary lacked any clear evidence. I've written to the ABC several times but they won't reply to me. The Host of the Documentary was the person who sent it to me and I gave her the opportunity to review and reject for 48 hours before I posted it. She didn't even reply to me. So far, I've had absolutely no contact with the ABC except for the one DM on Twitter, where Sophie, the host, personally reached out to send me a link to the Yt site

Re: Blanked-out spots on China's maps helped us uncover Xinjiang's camps

#284
post #88

There is a Canadian named Jerry Grey, who went on a bicycle ride in China. He literally rode hundreds of kilometers in Xinjiang, away from mainstream tourist attractions, to remote places he himself is interested in. He was able to do that without government supervision; all the government checkpoints let him pass without much scrutiny. What he reports on is very different from mainstream media reports. One of his bl…

Travel in Xinjiang isn't restricted for foreigners at least a year ago. There are a lot of security checkpoints, but they will just ignore you if you're not brown.

In August and September 2019, when I was in Xinjiang, we went through several checkpoints every day. the locals were in and through in about 20 seconds, I was with my Chinese wife, she could pass through in seconds too, but myself and an Australian friend were processed manually every time, it too between 20 minutes and 90 minutes, depending on the staff there. The Uyghurs got much better service than we did. However, I will point out that, at all times, they were polite.

Also, at no time did anyone ever ask to see my phone, my cameras (I had three) or ask where we had been the previous night - we slept several nights in unregistered locations, once in a culvert under the road, once behind a service station, once on the floor of a shed next to a service station and once, in Dabancheng in a cemetery just off the road. No one ever questioned us or asked for anything other than usual passport details

Re: Blanked-out spots on China's maps helped us uncover Xinjiang's camps

#285

Earlier quoted context omitted.

yeah i commented about documenting the prc supporters enabling this to happen and I got downvoted and flagged!

It's bad that certain groups (especially that one) will downvote/flag HN comments for political reasons, but I dare say the reason your comment got flagged was because of its emotional/aggressive tone, e.g. "so that each and every one of them can be prosecuted after China loses the third world war".

if we're not allowed to be emotional about genocide, then I'm not sure we are allowed to be human at all.

Re: Blanked-out spots on China's maps helped us uncover Xinjiang's camps

#286

Earlier quoted context omitted.

These are excellent suggestions. I've been wishing for some kind of "made in democracy" stamp, or a "produced humanly" if that would also shut out other more moderate manufacturing centres, similar to fair trade chocolate. https://www.fairtradeamerica.org/shop-fairtrade/fairtrade-pr...

> "made in democracy" Many countries have a fake democracy cover. Even Hitler won an election with like the 99% of the votes (I wonder if the other 1% survived for too long.) Also, does this label apply to the United Kingdom or Canada?

So my main worry was the possible controversy over what some consider pseudo-democracies, like Russia or outright not democracies but generally considered within the tolerable realm of citizen freedoms, like Vietnam, but I think your instant response over the UK and Canada indicates that a "made in democracy" would be tricky and that it would possibly have to be a more neutral term.

The intent would be a feelgood symbol manufacturers could attach to their products that would essentially give them a very slight competitive marketing edge - like the fair trade symbol, or the regionalities for cheese and wine, or the nintendo seal of approval, etc. This would be run through some kind of tiny registration fee for the symbol, which would then fund the central body of a few people checking the supply chains, dealing with the applications, and sorting out the advertising/branding.

If anyone has good ideas about this, post here. If anyone wants the idea and wants to do it, do it.

Re: Blanked-out spots on China's maps helped us uncover Xinjiang's camps

#287

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> 1) Cut them off on technology Google Rare Earth metals producers [0] Do you really want to enter who will starve first competition? [0] https://www.statista.com/statistics/268011/top-countries-in-...

China dominates rare earth metal production not because they have a monopoly on extraction technology or deposits, but because rare earth extraction is an extremely polluting process that developed countries no longer do. If China did restrict exports of rare earths, they're just providing an opportunity for mines like Mountain Pass in California to start production again. https://www.theverge.com/2019/5/23/18637071/…

I see, thanks for correcting me.

Re: Blanked-out spots on China's maps helped us uncover Xinjiang's camps

#288
post #244

Earlier quoted context omitted.

what would be a "credible hard evidence" for you?

images or videos of families confined in a camp, children, women and old men / women from reliable source. When we talk about concentration camp, it is always about large number of families.

Who/what would be a "reliable source" for you?

Also, a concentration camp is not defined in terms of families/women/children confined in it, there were many concentration camps in history that captured individual members of families, who were not ideologically aligned with a totalitarian regime of that time and place, the whole soviet Gulag system was built on secrecy and minimal exposure to public, when individual members of your family might not get back home from a grocery store one day and just dissappear into unknown destination.

Re: Blanked-out spots on China's maps helped us uncover Xinjiang's camps

#289
post #251

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This vlogger, his youtube channel is Serpentza lived in China for more than 10 years now had no choice but to leave, otherwise he wouldn’ve been inprisoned or even worse: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=nWgqdfAomVI

Thanks for the link, that's too bad. I remember watching his videos years ago. He seemed to really like living in China.

Yes his early videos were not political but his content changed dramatically in the last two years. He was under scrutiny by other western youtubers in China e.g https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KiOOC1Exk7o to question his recent contents. Not commenting on his opinions just to provide information from both sides.

Re: Blanked-out spots on China's maps helped us uncover Xinjiang's camps

#290

Vice also went undercover last year to get footage of Xinjiang in-person: https://youtu.be/v7AYyUqrMuQ

I don't want to drive more divisive discussion here but if you understand chinese language the edits of the video is not without problems (a little sensationalist if I may say). The local guys are clearly helping the journalists, the normal citizens conversation were quite innocent and used in a way to indicate the editor's views. At the end people were chanting 'Are you chinese', while it should be clearly interpreted as 'Are you a chinese citizen'. The editor clearly wants the viewers to think they are being taught to be Han chinese.
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