Apple to kill Epic’s accounts on Friday the 28th • Hacker News Board

Re: Apple to kill Epic’s accounts on Friday the 28th

#281

Post by ayoisaiah » Mon, Aug 17, 2020, 8:47 PM UTC

baddox wrote: post #251

dwild wrote: post #220

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> That's definitely not true. You cannot run unsigned code on most video game consoles. And I'm pretty sure many people would be quite against this practice and believe this is an harmful monopolistic practice. The thing is though, no one had the balls and/or the cash to defends this like Epic does right now against Apple. Let's hope this will bring a more open future on video game consoles too.

Most people I've seen commenting on this Epic vs. Apple debate seem to think that it's okay on game consoles but not okay on iPhones, which is just preposterous. At least you're consistent. But what about e-readers, GPS devices, car entertainment systems, etc.? Should all Turing-complete computing devices be forced to provide a way for the owner to run unsigned code?

The difference is that those other devices have a specific use. Smartphones are general purpose devices, so it's not the same at all

Re: Apple to kill Epic’s accounts on Friday the 28th

#282

Post by mantap » Mon, Aug 17, 2020, 8:48 PM UTC

baddox wrote: post #187

mantap wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Usually when you fire a customer they can go to one of your competitors. This just proves Epic's argument. There is no competing App Store on iOS because it's not allowed. If Apple "fires" you then your users can no longer install the app onto their own phones. Imagine if Microsoft "fired" Adobe and as a result nobody could install Photoshop on Windows anymore.

Arguments of this form always rely on nebulous definitions of what counts as a "choice." Sure, if you're banned from a specific app store, you cannot use that specific app store, because that's just what is means to be banned. You can, of course, still access any other app store.

Imagine if Google decided tomorrow to ban App Stores other than Google Play Store on Android.

This would mean that there's only two app stores: Apple's and Google's.

Google doesn't do that because that would be an abuse of their market position and they would get rinsed in the courts. Since the same laws apply to Google as Apple, and Apple clearly has significant market power in smartphone and tablet computers, it stands to reason that Apple should be prohibited from doing the same thing.

Re: Apple to kill Epic’s accounts on Friday the 28th

#283

Post by chillacy » Mon, Aug 17, 2020, 8:48 PM UTC

fatbird wrote: post #172

pmontra wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Then customers that want that product go to another store chain. This makes stores think twice before banning some products or brands. There is only one store in iOS country.

But there are several stores in mobile country, and more again in platform country. Drawing the boundary of the market around iOS seems circular. "They're a monopoly because they have 100% of the market share on the market that's specific to them."

Platform country? How does another viable store in Canada help me if I live in the US?

Or even, how does another viable store in Nevada help me if I live in Illinois? I know I can "just move" anytime, nothing's stopping me, but it's expensive...

Re: Apple to kill Epic’s accounts on Friday the 28th

#284

Post by ayoisaiah » Mon, Aug 17, 2020, 8:49 PM UTC

jkrems wrote: post #236

Jonnax wrote: post #206

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well it's what it is up front. A games consoles plays games and streams some video. A mobile phone is a camera, gps, web browser, telephone, messaging, food delivery, music listening, video watching, taxi calling, banking tool etc etc etc device. living your life, Apple and Google get 30% of your transactions.

> A mobile phone is a camera, gps, web browser, telephone, messaging, food delivery, music listening, video watching, taxi calling, banking tool etc etc etc device. I'm sure you know that you can do most if not all of those also from a game console. Sure, it doesn't always have a camera or GPS but that's true for many other general purpose computers as well. You can absolutely listen to music or watch videos or do on…

You're not seriously trying to equate Xbox and iPhone usage in the same category

Re: Apple to kill Epic’s accounts on Friday the 28th

#285

Post by r00fus » Mon, Aug 17, 2020, 8:50 PM UTC

klmadfejno wrote: post #196

sircastor wrote: post #64

A lot of this feels to me like Rpic thinks they’re a bigger deal than they are. No doubt they make a lot of money, and they’ve made Apple a lot of money. I think though that their attempt to take Apple in the court of Public opinion is going to fall flat, because there are a lot more iOS users than Fortnite on iOS players.

Eh, I don't know. I think they've got a lot of positive momentum. I would bet generously on their future. * I despise fortnite. I don't know if it has longevity. But it's pretty damn ambitious and is closer to the metaverse than anyone has gotten in a frustrating sort of way * Unreal Engine is getting better by the day, is very dev friendly, and is likely going to grow in popularity as some of it's neat-o UE5 feature…

What do you mean that FN is closer to the "metaverse"?

Re: Apple to kill Epic’s accounts on Friday the 28th

#286

Post by chillacy » Mon, Aug 17, 2020, 8:51 PM UTC

Keyframe wrote: post #245

sjg007 wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Consumers bought the phone which can be be considered a general computing device.. so we should be free to run whatever software we want on it. That's the real argument.

I agree with that, but it’s then also a broader question that covers all computing devices. Should I be able to run free whatever software I want in my car, in any of its systems? How about medical devices or any of the gaming consoles? It’ll probably end up being an argument on what a general computing device is.

I mean... yes? I think we should have the right to modify / tinker with things we buy, with the understanding that doing so voids any warranties or manufacturer liability.

Re: Apple to kill Epic’s accounts on Friday the 28th

#287

Post by mam2 » Mon, Aug 17, 2020, 8:51 PM UTC

jedberg wrote: post #3

It's fascinating to see the replies to the tweets. It appears most people don't care. They just want their game to work. A lesson in how your customers don't care about how your product is made.

This is literay a life lesson. No one cares of your struggles in general

Re: Apple to kill Epic’s accounts on Friday the 28th

#288

Post by m-p-3 » Mon, Aug 17, 2020, 8:52 PM UTC

Keyframe wrote: post #245

sjg007 wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Consumers bought the phone which can be be considered a general computing device.. so we should be free to run whatever software we want on it. That's the real argument.

I agree with that, but it’s then also a broader question that covers all computing devices. Should I be able to run free whatever software I want in my car, in any of its systems? How about medical devices or any of the gaming consoles? It’ll probably end up being an argument on what a general computing device is.

I wish I could say yes to all of those, as long as the risks of unintended behavior and damage are clearly explained.

Re: Apple to kill Epic’s accounts on Friday the 28th

#289

Post by ProAm » Mon, Aug 17, 2020, 8:52 PM UTC

pwinnski wrote: post #222

senko wrote: post #207

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's not what the parent said.

I listed three conditions: "[1] violated the policies and then [2] filed a lawsuit and [3] started an extensive PR campaign" Netflix arguably did the first, but I don't recall them doing either of the other two things.

Because they were not kicked from the app store for doing so.

Re: Apple to kill Epic’s accounts on Friday the 28th

#290

Post by Hamuko » Mon, Aug 17, 2020, 8:53 PM UTC

baddox wrote: post #188

Maascamp wrote: post #185

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But doing so wouldn't make that developer's software unusable on Windows.

Being banned from the iOS App Store also doesn't make your software unusable on Windows, or Mac, or any other non-iOS platform. The App Store's exclusivity is precisely the same as that of nearly every video game console.

The fact that Apple is going to kill Epic Games' ability to notarize macOS apps does actually make their software unusable on Macs.