Doesn't Epic ban kids when they violate the Fortnite TOS? Epic knew what they were doing. I have no sympathy for them.
Apple to kill Epic’s accounts on Friday the 28th
101–110 of 996 posts
Re: Apple to kill Epic’s accounts on Friday the 28th
#102Earlier quoted context omitted.
Of course they should. But, market dominance means agreement to such terms are not 'fair'.
Yes, total market dominance with 10% market share.
Epic very specifically defined the "market" as iOS devices. Their argument is based on the assertion that Android is not an alternative to the App Store since it's a completely different operating system. So, Apple actually has 100% market share of the iOS market.
Re: Apple to kill Epic’s accounts on Friday the 28th
#103From a preliminary statement of Epic's motion: > Just over two weeks ago, Apple’s CEO Tim Cook was asked during a Congressional hearing whether Apple has “ever retaliated against or disadvantaged a developer who went public about their frustrations with the App Store”. Mr. Cook testified, “We do not retaliate or bully people. It’s strongly against our company culture.”
This isn't retaliation though for Epic going on Twitter and being angry about the App Store practices, or the situation like Hey where the was a lot of press and negativity.
Epic breached the terms of the agreement for their app, so their app was removed from the App Store. Other than needing to fix their app to no longer be in violation of the guidelines, they could have cured that breach of the contract.
Instead Epic decided to sue Apple in court.
According to the Apple Developer Program License that you agree to (section 11.2 specifically) states:
> This Agreement and all rights and licenses granted by Apple hereunder and any services provided hereunder will terminate, effective immediately upon notice from Apple: > (a) if You or any of Your Authorized Developers fail to comply with any term of this Agreement other than those set forth below in this Section 11.2 and fail to cure such breach within 30 days after becoming aware of or receiving notice of such breach;
and section (f):
> (f) if You engage, or encourage others to engage, in any misleading, fraudulent, improper, unlawful or dishonest act relating to this Agreement, including, but not limited to, misrepresenting the nature of Your submitted Application (e.g., hiding or trying to hide functionality from Apple’s review, falsifying consumer reviews for Your Application, engaging in payment fraud, etc.).
This is not retaliation, this is simply following the license agreement that Epic agreed to.
Re: Apple to kill Epic’s accounts on Friday the 28th
#104A lot of this feels to me like Rpic thinks they’re a bigger deal than they are. No doubt they make a lot of money, and they’ve made Apple a lot of money. I think though that their attempt to take Apple in the court of Public opinion is going to fall flat, because there are a lot more iOS users than Fortnite on iOS players.
What I find confusing about Epic's approach is taking on Google at the same time. It seems like you'd have some leverage at forcing Apple to the table if you were exclusive on Google, for instance -- and then, after winning, you could be exclusive on Apple for a while to cut a similar deal with Google.
All your leverage comes from kids wanting to only have a device that plays their favorite game where they hang out with their friends.
Re: Apple to kill Epic’s accounts on Friday the 28th
#105What's the practical impact of this on Unreal support for MacOS/iOS?
Re: Apple to kill Epic’s accounts on Friday the 28th
#106Is it bad that I hope they do kill Epic's account? Epic launches a preconceived plan with media attacks and the most ridiculous 1984 reference that actually doesn't make sense in the current context against Apple. If I'm Apple, even if this is a straight up attack on me, I just follow the rules in my TOS and block them like I do others who don't follow the TOS. If you don't like the TOS, fine you don't have to be on…
The 1984 spoof feels like it misses the mark. I think it caused more people to go watch the original ad than anything else.
Re: Apple to kill Epic’s accounts on Friday the 28th
#107Earlier quoted context omitted.
Yup. Exactly. Think of it this way. You manufacture product foo and it's sold to customers via some national store chain. If you anger the owners of the store chain, they can simply refuse to carry your product anymore. This happens all the time. The app store is no different. It's a national chain that Epic sells through and they've poked the bear one too many times. Lucky for Epic that it's privately held. Otherwis…
Apple doesn't own those phones anymore though, the users do. Whereas, I don't get to own my own best buy.
Users own the hardware, but not the software - they are grante a license to use the software. This is not about the hardware, it's about a single App, the App Store, which the user does not own.
Re: Apple to kill Epic’s accounts on Friday the 28th
#108Earlier quoted context omitted.
But can you be banned from doing business with millions of other people for offending the gatekeeper?
Yup. Exactly. Think of it this way. You manufacture product foo and it's sold to customers via some national store chain. If you anger the owners of the store chain, they can simply refuse to carry your product anymore. This happens all the time. The app store is no different. It's a national chain that Epic sells through and they've poked the bear one too many times. Lucky for Epic that it's privately held. Otherwis…
Then customers that want that product go to another store chain. This makes stores think twice before banning some products or brands.
There is only one store in iOS country.
Re: Apple to kill Epic’s accounts on Friday the 28th
#109Earlier quoted context omitted.
Why should Epic get to enjoy a market that Apple built without giving Apple anything or following the rules of the platform? Should anybody be able to post anything they want on HN or YouTube or Facebook etc.? They can't. Does Epic allow anyone to sell content for Fortnite without giving Epic any money? They don't.
Consumers bought the phone which can be be considered a general computing device.. so we should be free to run whatever software we want on it. That's the real argument.
This situation is a very large part of the reason I would never buy an iPhone.
The walled garden isn't a surprise, it's a feature.
Re: Apple to kill Epic’s accounts on Friday the 28th
#110Earlier quoted context omitted.
I personally thought they were already in abuse of market power. But on this latest development, I want to hear Apple's argument first. That said, I didn't find their argument on the first action compelling so not optimistic. But maybe they discovered some abuse, for one random, made-up example -- my point isn't to trust Apple but just to see what the reasoning is first. This tweet doesn't say if they were given any…
Yeah to be honest while I think Apple clearly has monopoly power here that should be reined in, I also get the feeling that Epic will have a pretty weak argument for why they purposely violated the Terms of Service and then expect to continue using the SDK tools.
If you argue a company doesn’t allow behavior X, doing it and getting punished is the best course of action to prove the point.
To your point, they have a whole lawsuit filling explaining why they think X should be allowed.