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The University Is Like a CD in the Streaming Age

theatlantic.com

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Re: The University Is Like a CD in the Streaming Age

#281

Post by pritovido »

com2kid wrote: post #247
Melting_Harps wrote: post #236

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The entire US education system needs an overhaul. You can't really fix our university system without making corresponding reforms in K-12. Sure you can, have an opt-out model for students like they have in Germanic countries by the time you're in your mid-teens and apprenticeships in a various crafts and professions to help them into working Life. It works really well, and prepares them for a life in a ROBUST manuf…

> I could enjoy music, without the theory or the knowledge behind it, One of the most enriching classes I took was The Art of Listening to Music. It was a grand tour through music history and practice up until the early 20th century. I learned how to understand the compositional elements that go into making music, and while the class was biased towards western classical music, by the time the quarter was over I found…

>Have you ever met someone who can do 0(ish) delay translation between languages? With no accent?

I have met quite a few professional translators that work for the European Union and all of them add a significant delay to translation. And accent.

You are probably referring to speaking different languages like a native, but that is not translating anything: When I speak Spanish(as a native speaker) I just think in Spanish, the same in any other language like German or French.

In fact if you speak for example in French or Italian you need to add some "music" to each phrase. Usually when you are translating you subconsciously carry those tones to the other languages.

E.g If I translate from French to Spanish I will carry the French intonation to Spanish even when I am native in Spanish.

Re: The University Is Like a CD in the Streaming Age

#282

Post by com2kid »

pritovido wrote: post #281
com2kid wrote: post #247

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I could enjoy music, without the theory or the knowledge behind it, One of the most enriching classes I took was The Art of Listening to Music. It was a grand tour through music history and practice up until the early 20th century. I learned how to understand the compositional elements that go into making music, and while the class was biased towards western classical music, by the time the quarter was over I found…

>Have you ever met someone who can do 0(ish) delay translation between languages? With no accent? I have met quite a few professional translators that work for the European Union and all of them add a significant delay to translation. And accent. You are probably referring to speaking different languages like a native, but that is not translating anything: When I speak Spanish(as a native speaker) I just think in Spa…

> I have met quite a few professional translators that work for the European Union and all of them add a significant delay to translation. And accent.

My point is more that learning this skill is an academic pursuit that involves a lot of training.

There is a delay, (word ordering, brain time) but the top translators I've met have zero accent. (Most impressive was meeting someone, not a translator IIRC, who had not only gotten rid of their accent but learned a California American accent!)

But again, doing all of this involves a lot of study, from the biology/mechanics of speaking, to the deep cultural knowledge that is needed to translate idioms.

Re: The University Is Like a CD in the Streaming Age

#283

Post by 8bitsrule »

I'd never gladly give up all of the things about college that had nothing to do with coursework. Yes, over the years the discipline, fluidity and acumen required and acquired from mentors was invaluable. But that was maybe one-third of the value.

To describe the rest? let's say: the concentration of similarly-oriented students and the time to explore and grow in an intense and stimulating environment. But - then - college was a lot less expensive.

Re: The University Is Like a CD in the Streaming Age

#284

Post by wespiser_2018 »

For some programs, like Georgia Tech's OMSCS, online students in given courses are known to do better on written exams then the in-person class[1] This could have a lot to do with demographics: online students have a harder survivorship curve to contend with, already have employment, and face little reason to continue with the program if they are discouraged or stuggling. None the less, it's an interesting data point!

[1] https://dl.acm.org/doi/pdf/10.1145/2876034.2893383

Re: The University Is Like a CD in the Streaming Age

#285

Post by selimthegrim »

Yhippa wrote: post #140
maram wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> University is a place where teachers and students who are interested in a field meet to learn and research together. Modern Uni has often forgotten that. Universities are like venture capital investments...it’s that one single class that will matter the most. 1/10 classes will have the biggest impact on your life... It were the night courses at the Art Institute of Chicago for Walt Disney. It was the calligraphy cl…

This is an interesting way of thinking about this. There were definitely a few classes I took that really made an impression on me and changed the way I thought about things. There were also a lot of classes that were highly forgettable.

Maybe time to bring the Little Blue Books back?

https://www.stitcher.com/podcast/mass-for-shutins-the-gin-an...

Re: The University Is Like a CD in the Streaming Age

#286

Post by dpoochieni »

throwawaygh wrote: post #219
dpoochieni wrote: post #207

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What not to love, they begin the class segregation early. Wait what? Guess they are that way after centuries of pretty authoritarian governments. Every one knows their place /s

The USA is just as bad, if not worse. The mechanisms are different but the effect is the same. If you don't take honors/AP courses throughout high school, then you're cut off from an entire world of possibilities. And if you are in the wrong ZIP code, you might not have access to those courses at all. Do you know what percentage of US high schools offer AP CS? The US segregates pretty heavily starting the last year o…

An apology for the snark, just remembered a comment a professor(anthropologist) made that so much of the German culture was shaped by the monarchical and authoritarian regimes, just highly hierarchical and regulated to death, that ruled over it. Not comparing to the US and not American just curious how cultural differences play out. Think both US and Germany still have it decently good compared to what you will see in other countries (just plain terrible).

Now, these 2, I won't say one's situation is better than the other but it is curious that both models of public education have their origin in Prussia/Germany and seem to be keeping the original 19th Century purposes of reducing social unrest.

I do see it is more difficult to keep a good level of education in the vast extension of the US with the current system. Seems it is in need of an overhaul but way deeper than AP courses. Like how would AP courses benefit a rural schoolkid other than maybe getting access to work in a city? Could we think there is any education for him to be a good farmer? (as 1 example, not sure if it is practical) Ideally, moonshot, he would be able to choose whichever path suited him best, whether more education or moving, etc...

Re: The University Is Like a CD in the Streaming Age

#287

Post by throwawaygh »

0xffff2 wrote: post #251
throwawaygh wrote: post #156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's an extremely old joke (like 100+ years old; I can't find the source atm) that goes something like: "US universities are the best high schools in the world". And it's true. It's not safe to assume that someone with only a high school education will be able to write well, do basic mathematics, etc. The high school grads who go on to teach themselves how to program are an extreme outlier. The entire US education…

> there's a whole class of universities you can't get into without doing the honors/ap track in high school. Which would those be? I don't have much insight into the "traditional" admissions system since I took quite a few years off from school between high school and college, but I didn't have any trouble at all getting into a well-regarded UC without any honors/AP classes. I did go to community college first, but I…

> Which would those be?

Most of the top-tier R1 universities; i.e., ivies and similarly competitive institutions. Also, similarly competitive departments at otherwise less selective universities (e.g., UW's or CMU's CS programs. Getting into either university is considerably easier than getting into the CS program).

NB: I guess the sentence you quoted is slightly too strong. You can first go to community college and then transfer. But it's not the default path, and request some special effort. That's also true in Germany, by the way. You can go to University without going to a gymnasium.

Re: The University Is Like a CD in the Streaming Age

#288

Post by david38 »

simonebrunozzi wrote: post #106
turbinerneiter wrote: post #83

Ya'll use University wrong. The classes, etc. ... whatever! During my time at Uni, I: * designed a demonstrator car frame to show off a bunch of new manufacturing techniques, which was actually built in the end * was part of a team who tested a new type of fiber optical vibration sensor on a sounding rocket * worked with a PhD student on developing a sensor to measure water flow through a tank to validate his simulat…

Your specific experience is great, and I'm glad for you. The point here, however, is what University is for all people, not just for individual cases like yours where things align nicely, and where maybe your own character and personality (and some of your professors and class mates) helped you get a meaningful experience out of it. My personal opinion is that the article is mostly right about what doesn't make sense…

My experience was similar to his.

University was never designed for all people. What do you think the admissions process is for?

The community college system is for all people. It’s open enrollment and will work with you wherever you are in your path to learn.

Universities bring together bright, motivated people to work on things that are difficult to do by yourself or spread around.

That is what they’re for.

We overload the system to also educate people who just want to do their assignments and get out. Those people would greatly benefit from an online education I believe. There should definitely be more options than for-profit “colleges” that mostly rip you off. This is a service that is desperately needed.

Re: The University Is Like a CD in the Streaming Age

#289

Post by throwawaygh »

dpoochieni wrote: post #286
throwawaygh wrote: post #219

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The USA is just as bad, if not worse. The mechanisms are different but the effect is the same. If you don't take honors/AP courses throughout high school, then you're cut off from an entire world of possibilities. And if you are in the wrong ZIP code, you might not have access to those courses at all. Do you know what percentage of US high schools offer AP CS? The US segregates pretty heavily starting the last year o…

An apology for the snark, just remembered a comment a professor(anthropologist) made that so much of the German culture was shaped by the monarchical and authoritarian regimes, just highly hierarchical and regulated to death, that ruled over it. Not comparing to the US and not American just curious how cultural differences play out. Think both US and Germany still have it decently good compared to what you will see i…

Yes, both are relatively better than many other systems.

> Like how would AP courses benefit a rural schoolkid other than maybe getting access to work in a city? Could we think there is any education for him to be a good farmer?

I think this perhaps misunderstands the typical life paths of rural students.

20% of the US population lives in rural counties, but only 2% of the population works in agriculture. And even that over-estimates the number of school children who will grow up to be farmers because a huge amount of the unskilled farm labor in the US is done by first generation migrants.

So the average rural schoolkid in the USA isn't going to work on a farm (and the ones that do will often be skilled workers or owners and will therefore go off and get agricultural degrees.)

The government runs a lot of jobs programs for rural areas. Things like state/federal prisons and military bases are intentionally placed in rural areas to provide employment opportunities. And of course national forests/parks tend to be in rural areas and provide a small but steady stream of jobs. We also explicitly subsidize hospitals and schools in those areas; the local tax/consumer base probably couldn't support those services on their own. So the government sector is the lifeblood of many small towns these days, at least as far as employment goes.

Re: The University Is Like a CD in the Streaming Age

#290

Post by rboes2 »

codethief wrote: post #187
throwawaygh wrote: post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I really like the German higher education system. Unfortunately, the USA conflates universities and applied universities. Most people who go to university in the USA, go to what would be closer to a Fachhochschule. Smaller colleges and universities that don't grant PhDs and whose professors have research output is closer to "write a paper in the summer" than "run a research lab". Most people who have negative views t…

> Unfortunately, the USA conflates universities and applied universities. This. I wish this point were brought up more often in these discussions in favor of/against universities. People tend to have entirely different ideas when it comes to what a higher-level education should provide: For some people it's a scientific way of thinking about the world, for others it's just preparation for a future (and hopefully bett…

Thank you for this perspective, I've never thought of it but it makes a lot of sense
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