Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

US customs and border protection is flying a surveillance drone over Minneapolis

vice.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

281–290 of 456 posts

Re: US customs and border protection is flying a surveillance drone over Minneapolis

#281

Post by A4ET8a8uTh0 »

billme wrote: post #137
dpflan wrote: post #15

FTA: "Unarmed Predator drones were first used within the United States in 2012, when the Department of Homeland Security flew one over the property of a cattle farmer named Rodney Brossart to surveil him, and to help end a 16-hour standoff between him and another rancher over a stolen-cattle dispute. The use was highly controversial at the time; since then, CBP has used drones hundreds of times, and has not kept very…

False; Katrina & US border patrol was what officially sparked the call to (publicly) use drones in the US. CBP has used drones with FAA approval within the US since 2006; which does not included any use prior to 2006 which remains classified. SOURCE: https://www.wsj.com/articles/SB115491642950528436

Odd question. The thing that I find odd about it is the jurisdiction of US border patrol here. Why would the government call them as opposed to, say, national guard? I am curious.

Re: US customs and border protection is flying a surveillance drone over Minneapolis

#282

Post by stefantalpalaru »

vmchale wrote: post #270
pm90 wrote: post #22

This was very predictable. Tools invented for military operations abroad eventually, predictably find their way back domestically. Despite that, its a dangerous thing to happen. I am aware of how unlikely it is for the current US Government to use the drone offensively, but once you have a massive fleet of drones flying over the US, patrolling "troubling" neighborhoods constantly, the temptation to use those abilitie…

Also nuts that CBP is the one doing it.

> Also nuts that CBP is the one doing it.

Maybe they extended the 100 mile constitution-exempt border zone: https://www.aclu.org/other/constitution-100-mile-border-zone

Re: US customs and border protection is flying a surveillance drone over Minneapolis

#283

Post by nwallin »

kec wrote: post #21
king_magic wrote: post #7

I don't really see the issue here with a surveillance drone to help keep the peace. I don't really care if it's "military technology" or not. Look, what happened was absolutely awful. People have a right to protest - and should, but peacefully. Riots, looting, burning buildings? Sorry, that's going to far. If the government starts firing rockets at people from that drone - well that's another story. But that is clear…

Predator drones can carry multiple air to ground missiles and guided bombs. This is the same model of drone which is used for drone strikes in the Middle East. There is no reasonable reason for a domestic civilian agency to own or use these drones over US soil vs models which are incapable of carrying armament.

> There is no reasonable reason for a domestic civilian agency to own or use these drones over US soil vs models which are incapable of carrying armament.

This is a model which is incapable of carrying armament.

Re: US customs and border protection is flying a surveillance drone over Minneapolis

#284

Post by coryrc »

komali2 wrote: post #238
coryrc wrote: post #173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Did they loot the place while they were there?

Did they suffer from endless degrading at the hands of the police for generations? Cry more about target losing televisions, if the death of yet another unarmed black man makes you feel nothing at least the looting does.

People used to block café counters and demand to give money for service.

Your racism is the soft bigotry of low expectations.

Re: US customs and border protection is flying a surveillance drone over Minneapolis

#285

Post by Alupis »

_jal wrote: post #276
Alupis wrote: post #248

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think we first need to determine what is upsetting about this, specifically. Is it that they are flying a UAV that was originally designed for military use? Or is it that they are flying a UAV period? What if it was a new UAV, designed just for law enforcement? No problems then? Presumably this UAV has no weapons on it, so I'm unsure what the problem could be unless we just flat oppose former military equipment bei…

As I said in another comment, the importance of the change doesn't lie in a narrow look at the changed component. It is formally about the overall balance of rights, responsibilities of citizens and police/military[1], and less formally about trust between the two and the overall climate we want to live in, as a country. If you make a given police enforcement mechanism cheaper, it will be used more. What does that do…

I suppose, to that end, what about my rights to not be looted or have my car flipped over and set ablaze?

I suppose in those situations, I'd be grateful for some law enforcement presence monitoring the situation and guiding folks on the ground to the most appropriate places needing the most attention.

Re: US customs and border protection is flying a surveillance drone over Minneapolis

#286

Post by ryandrake »

komali2 wrote: post #238
coryrc wrote: post #173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Did they loot the place while they were there?

Did they suffer from endless degrading at the hands of the police for generations? Cry more about target losing televisions, if the death of yet another unarmed black man makes you feel nothing at least the looting does.

Police abuse of power and brutality happens every day and mainstream America doesn't bat an eye. But you burn down one Target... and all of a sudden everyone loses their minds!

Re: US customs and border protection is flying a surveillance drone over Minneapolis

#287

Post by adimitrov »

Alupis wrote: post #248
beambot wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Where do you draw the distinction between a drone (presumably unarmed) vs a police helicopter?

I think we first need to determine what is upsetting about this, specifically. Is it that they are flying a UAV that was originally designed for military use? Or is it that they are flying a UAV period? What if it was a new UAV, designed just for law enforcement? No problems then? Presumably this UAV has no weapons on it, so I'm unsure what the problem could be unless we just flat oppose former military equipment bei…

> What if it was a new UAV, designed just for law enforcement? No problems then?

Fewer problems. Presumably it would be much less capable. The sister comment[1] lays out how dangerous this UAV is, and how powerful. History has shown that the police/military are eager to gain capabilities, and very reluctant to part with them. If use of these very capable military grade drones becomes wide-spread, using them aggressively against live people becomes more probable. And very easy to do — they're already everywhere.

We should also think about how regulated their use should be! These have the capability to just provide 24h surveillance on certain areas, which would erode citizens' privacy greatly.

[1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23354643

Re: US customs and border protection is flying a surveillance drone over Minneapolis

#288

Post by gremlinsinc »

pm90 wrote: post #22

This was very predictable. Tools invented for military operations abroad eventually, predictably find their way back domestically. Despite that, its a dangerous thing to happen. I am aware of how unlikely it is for the current US Government to use the drone offensively, but once you have a massive fleet of drones flying over the US, patrolling "troubling" neighborhoods constantly, the temptation to use those abilitie…

I seem to think they wrote a book on things just like this... it was named after some year...back in the 80's if i recall /s...

George Orwell would be proud (not of what we've become but for his predictions being so damn accurate).

Re: US customs and border protection is flying a surveillance drone over Minneapolis

#289

Post by [deleted] »

remarkEon wrote: post #212
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #194

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> These protests are at least partly drummed up by out of state agitators This is a scary response. We saw, today, a black CNN reporter arrested by state police on live television. If that’s how an educated, gently-speaking, Constitutionally-protected member of the press is treated, there is a root issue festering. Blaming it on agitators deflects from introspection. A big part of the problem is Minneapolis’s moderat…

If you watched an of the live feeds from the last two nights there are plenty of people who announce that they're from e.g. Nebraska and part of some Antifa faction. >A big part of the problem is Minneapolis’s moderates have turned a blind eye to the problems in their police force for years. I don't understand how people can honestly think this is true. The Police Commissioner is literally the guy from Internal Affai…

[deleted]
Post reply on HN