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"Google Stadia is not a product that exists because people want it"

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Re: "Google Stadia is not a product that exists because people want it"

#281

Post by Bartweiss »

Crinus wrote: post #232
Bartweiss wrote: post #217

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I suppose the importance of "lost when the project closes" depends on the lifespan of the project. Every Flash/Shockwave browser game is becoming increasingly hard to play. Games for ancient Windows versions can be devilishly hard to get running, and games for PowerPC Macs are all but impossible. Emulation is flaky and incomplete for console games of all kinds. When it comes to something like a music library, "buy do…

There are people who try to archive Flash and Shockwave games and if anything, this is a good example of trying to fix something after the bad situation has already happened: the best time was when things were new. But better now than never. PowerPC and 86k macs can be run under emulation so not everything is lost. Similar for games for DOS and ancient Windows versions, though from my personal experience 99.9% of old…

Yes, this is all true. I didn't mean to imply those things can't be salvaged, or that I think the lifespan of frameworks and hardware justifies switching to a system of "you lose all your games forever as soon as we aren't profitable". Outside of Flash games with no remaining hosts and console games with no known cartridges, there isn't much which is 100% lost. And the best works in an environment are most likely to endure, so most notable games are at least playable for somebody.

Rather, my concern is that lots of people already view games as having a "lifespan", and if they trust a streaming service to endure for a decade that might be accepted as "how long games last anyway".

Re: "Google Stadia is not a product that exists because people want it"

#282

Post by JohnFen »

Bartweiss wrote: post #276
JohnFen wrote: post #255

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> So even if Stadia looks too short-lived, the second or third big game-streaming service might convince people it'll last as long as any other software does. Considering that I still play games that I bought over 20 years ago, it would take at least 20 years for a streaming service to be able to convince me of this.

That's true for me too, I dug out Starship Titanic not long ago, but it raises another concern. If streaming games catch on widely enough, the holdouts become a niche market. I don't foresee that happening to games in general, but certain genres could see streaming-only releases. In particular, online FPS games have high requirements and many already have "fixed" lifespans because matchmaking relies on the publisher'…

> I don't foresee that happening to games in general

To be honest, I feel like this has already happened to computer games in general. Online and/or phone-home requirements pushed me out of large segments of the games market years ago.

Re: "Google Stadia is not a product that exists because people want it"

#283

Post by JohnFen »

dorgo wrote: post #270
JohnFen wrote: post #218

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Was it still a good movie? Sure. It might even be good enough that you want to have a copy of your own that you know you'll be able to watch at any point in the future. > Maybe longevity is overrated? If you play a game for a month or two and enjoyed it, it's worth the price It probably depends on what sort of games you enjoy, and why. I still pull out games that I bought 20 or more years ago and play them, and am…

>Sure. It might even be good enough that you want to have a copy of your own that you know you'll be able to watch at any point in the future. Is this not possible with Stadia?

Not as far as I can tell. You're streaming the games from Stadia servers. You have no "copy" of them.

Re: "Google Stadia is not a product that exists because people want it"

#284

Post by dcchambers »

randyrand wrote: post #257
dcchambers wrote: post #68

My only issue with Stadia is that Google has no policy regarding what happens to the games you have purchased if/when they shut down the service. Well, I guess they have a policy - and that is "you don't own these games, you temporarily own the rights to use them while this service is running." I take solace knowing that the $60+ games I buy for my PC or Switch are mine because I have local copies. I am not going to…

Steam only has a promise that they’ll give you the games without DRM if they shut down. Id much prefer something more legally binding.

That is true - but I can legally download and keep a copy of all games I own on Steam on my hard drive forever. If they are online games/have DRM the online/activation servers might shut down some day, but every single player game I have should be useable forever. Until my drive fails anyway. Most games have had the DRM cracked. In my mind it's perfectly legal for me to take advantage of that crack to bypass the DRM in a case like this since I have legally purchased and downloaded the product.

I have a number of DRM-free games (from Steam, GOG, Humble Bundle, etc) that I have offline copies of. No one can take those away from me by shutting down a service.

Re: "Google Stadia is not a product that exists because people want it"

#285

Post by falcolas »

Jyaif wrote: post #162
Crinus wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> the lack of a long term vision How about this for a long term vision: any game you buy now will be totally lost in the future ("long term") when Google decides to shut down the service (which happens all the time) or deactivate your account (which also happens all the time) while developers will have moved on and/or closed and wont give a second thought about. In the meanwhile, while Stadia exists, any games will b…

> i can imagine all the negative potential it has But you fail to imagine all the positive potential. Terabyte-sized games with 0 download time, more interactions between players, better graphics, no more cheating, no more piracy (which leads to more games or bigger games), and better utilized HW (which is good for your wallet and the environment), and obviously you can play wherever you want. Streaming games is the…

Instead you have TB sized streaming.

Instead, you have carefully controlled and moderated interactions between players. LAN parties and internet cafe's would just not be possible.

Cheating will still occur, just at different levels. And I have to ask, why is cheating in a single player offline game bad in the first place? Cheating was built into many past games.

Piracy I'll give you, but I firmly disagree that it will lead to more or better games. It will just pad the pockets of the gaming studios more.

Instead you get to play on wifi only. No cell phones (not fast enough). Nowhere with data caps. Nowhere that isn't near to a Google data center.

Re: "Google Stadia is not a product that exists because people want it"

#286

Post by CivilianZero »

smnrchrds wrote: post #176
kingbirdy wrote: post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Stadia doesn't prevent you from owning your own hardware, nor will it. It's just another option for people who can't afford to own hardware.

Imagine if we had this conversation 10 years ago: - I don't like streaming services, because content can disappear/the quality is lower/... - Streaming doesn't prevent you from owning your own DVDs/BDs , nor will it And now in 2019, there are so many films and tv shows only released through streaming services, and never sold on disks.

This is patently false. Most "streaming only" tv shows do get dvd/blue-ray releases. But this is a bad-faith argument anyway, imagine all the times this has been said about new formats of any kind. Streaming is an option and does not prevent people from owning things and it isn't hurting you so maybe just let the people who want to stream things...stream them?

Re: "Google Stadia is not a product that exists because people want it"

#287

Post by EugeneOZ »

EugeneOZ wrote: post #62

I want Google Stadia. My internet bandwidth is more than enough for 4k 60 FPS and price for their service is pretty good - better than $3k PC for 5 years - you need to upgrade GPU at least every 3 years and CPU every 2 years (and, therefore, motherboard) to keep "high-end PC" title and play new games on "ultra" settings. Here they promise the same for a price, comparable to what my high-end PC takes for electricity.

correction: I'll be ready to pay when they ship all what promised, not half-backed "something" they've launched today.

Re: "Google Stadia is not a product that exists because people want it"

#288

Post by EugeneOZ »

utf985 wrote: post #111
EugeneOZ wrote: post #62

I want Google Stadia. My internet bandwidth is more than enough for 4k 60 FPS and price for their service is pretty good - better than $3k PC for 5 years - you need to upgrade GPU at least every 3 years and CPU every 2 years (and, therefore, motherboard) to keep "high-end PC" title and play new games on "ultra" settings. Here they promise the same for a price, comparable to what my high-end PC takes for electricity.

Where are you getting this data from? 2 years for a new CPU? My gaming pc from 2015 that cost just a little over $1k runs all recent games on ultra just fine.

I'm talking about playing with 4k screen resolution.

Re: "Google Stadia is not a product that exists because people want it"

#289

Post by Melchizedek »

odessacubbage wrote: post #197
cptskippy wrote: post #151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I've read reviews yesterday and was amazed by the lack of a long term vision from the reviewers. Maybe it's because most reviewer are jaded because it's industry standard for gaming companies to promise the world and deliver on only a small part of that. In general when a gaming company says "and we're going to do..." that's generally qualified with "if there's enough user adoption and demand". To believe in Stadia…

to believe in stadia, you need to engage in magical thinking that allows you to believe that google has somehow managed to solve network latency and america's laughable internet infrastructure and just forgot to tell everyone.

The US is not the world. The average person in parts of Europe and Asia has a much better internet connection.

Re: "Google Stadia is not a product that exists because people want it"

#290

Post by rchaud »

jcranberry wrote: post #195
Crinus wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> the lack of a long term vision How about this for a long term vision: any game you buy now will be totally lost in the future ("long term") when Google decides to shut down the service (which happens all the time) or deactivate your account (which also happens all the time) while developers will have moved on and/or closed and wont give a second thought about. In the meanwhile, while Stadia exists, any games will b…

Movies still come out on disc even though netflix and streaming services in general have been very successful. I don't see any reason why it wouldn't be the same with games.

Movies still come out on disc because they're good stocking stuffers for the holidays, and you can carve out a pretty good margin selling box sets of film anthologies.

Plus Blu-rays can be sold globally. What's available in one country's Netflix often doesn't line up with what's available in a different country. Plus, a good chunk of the US movie-watching population does not have reliable broadband access.

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