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"Google Stadia is not a product that exists because people want it"

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Re: "Google Stadia is not a product that exists because people want it"

#251
post #138
post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I could see playing RTS or tactical RPGs, but it is a very poor idea to propose FPS. It is already hard to have a reactive system locally, proposing remotely is. You need to react in 16ms if you want a snappy 60Hz. 1000 km from the server is adding 6 ms of ping. At one point, proposing this kind of service has the speed of light as a "technical constraint".

Nvidia is going to add negative lag to their service, so there's that...

im still very skeptical that predictive rollback is gonna feel very good to play with, ggpo is still probably the best existing version of rollback netcode and it still gets pretty fucky when it has to roll back

>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q0TZdY9_XHo

Re: "Google Stadia is not a product that exists because people want it"

#252

This is the sort of product that the Big Tech Companies build because they happen to live in the one place on earth where it will work. There is evidently a small area centered around the San Francisco Bay Area where internet connectivity is ubiquitous and perfect. You get unlimited 5G coverage with 2ms ping times and hundred gigabit fibre into every habitable structure. And Google, Apple, etc. all have their offices…

In this case it's not even about people not having good internet. It's about people not being physically near a data centre with the GPU that is playing your game. Come home from school, turn on Stadia? Bad news, everyone in your time zone just turned on stadia too and so the nearest slot is in NY, congratulations, you've got >100ms latency.

Also, many Americans use an an inferior broadband infrastructure to get to the rest of the internet, which means you not only have high latency due to distance, but also slower speeds during peak usage for cable victims.

Re: "Google Stadia is not a product that exists because people want it"

#253

I want Stadia. I've read reviews yesterday and was amazed by the lack of a long term vision from the reviewers. If Google doesn't drop the ball (which is a huge if knowing the company's history), Stadia makes a lot of sense. I want to play Red Dead Redemption 2, the cheapest way to do that as I don't have a console nor an expensive computer is Stadia. And when I will want to play Cyberpunk 2077, Stadia will be the ch…

> Stadia is the first offering that matches my needs of a Netflix for games.

Perhaps I misunderstand what Stadia is actually offering, but it doesn't look like a "Netflix for games" to me. Netflix's model is you pay a monthly fee and you get to watch anything in their catalog. With Stadia, you still have to buy each game separately, correct?

>I don't care if gamers nor teenagers want it

I am neither a gamer nor a teenager, and I don't want it. In fact, the only reason that I have any feelings about its existence at all is that if it's successful, that would mean more of the games industry will do this sort of thing, which will further reduce the amount of games available to me.

Re: "Google Stadia is not a product that exists because people want it"

#254
post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> the lack of a long term vision How about this for a long term vision: any game you buy now will be totally lost in the future ("long term") when Google decides to shut down the service (which happens all the time) or deactivate your account (which also happens all the time) while developers will have moved on and/or closed and wont give a second thought about. In the meanwhile, while Stadia exists, any games will b…

I suppose the importance of "lost when the project closes" depends on the lifespan of the project. Every Flash/Shockwave browser game is becoming increasingly hard to play. Games for ancient Windows versions can be devilishly hard to get running, and games for PowerPC Macs are all but impossible. Emulation is flaky and incomplete for console games of all kinds. When it comes to something like a music library, "buy do…

> Every Flash/Shockwave browser game is becoming increasingly hard to play.

If you have the actual .swf file, you can run the game in Flash Projector, easy!

> Games for ancient Windows versions can be devilishly hard to get running

What doesn't work in Virtualbox? Luckily, games from the 90's generally don't need GPU acceleration. I'm also continuously amazed by how much just works in modern Windows.

> games for PowerPC Macs are all but impossible.

There you have a point. Although even then, you can use VMWare + some unlocker tools to install Snow Leopard, and from there use Rosetta. Qemu is also supposed to be pretty good these days, although I've never tried it. Alternately, it's not that difficult to track down old Mac hardware.

> Emulation is flaky and incomplete for console games of all kinds.

Huh?

The Atari, NES, SNES, Genesis, Playstation, and all Gameboy models have damn-near perfect emulators. Identical to console down to the pixel, for every game.

Dolphin isn't quite take-a-microscope-to-the-screen accurate, but it will run the vast majority of the Gamecube and Wii's library such that you won't notice a difference.

The N64 and PS2 lack great emulators, but what's available is still very good. Some niche titles will exhibit glitches or refuse to run, but most stuff works well enough.

The Wii U and PS360 don't have such good emulators yet, but that's because those consoles are relatively recent. RPCS3 and Cemu are making great progress, and can already run a handful of large titles without problems, such as Persona 5 and BotW.

The original Xbox lacks a usable emulator, which sucks. Luckily, this isn't the norm.

Emulator developers have done amazing work, and the result is that most of gaming history is fully open to your exploration. Games will never be quite as plug and play as music files, but they aren't that labor-intensive to get working either.

Re: "Google Stadia is not a product that exists because people want it"

#255
post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> the lack of a long term vision How about this for a long term vision: any game you buy now will be totally lost in the future ("long term") when Google decides to shut down the service (which happens all the time) or deactivate your account (which also happens all the time) while developers will have moved on and/or closed and wont give a second thought about. In the meanwhile, while Stadia exists, any games will b…

I suppose the importance of "lost when the project closes" depends on the lifespan of the project. Every Flash/Shockwave browser game is becoming increasingly hard to play. Games for ancient Windows versions can be devilishly hard to get running, and games for PowerPC Macs are all but impossible. Emulation is flaky and incomplete for console games of all kinds. When it comes to something like a music library, "buy do…

> So even if Stadia looks too short-lived, the second or third big game-streaming service might convince people it'll last as long as any other software does.

Considering that I still play games that I bought over 20 years ago, it would take at least 20 years for a streaming service to be able to convince me of this.

Re: "Google Stadia is not a product that exists because people want it"

#256

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is actually the perfect comparison. I can still watch movies from the 1950s on various media. Good luck playing a Stadia exclusive in 2090 in any format. Treating games like a disposable commodity is short-sighted and undermines any claim the medium might have to being an art form.

This seems like a good argument against buying Stadia exclusives, but also against playing any MMO. It's a matter of degree, depending on the whims of the market and dedication of the emulator scene. Not all old movies or games are available. Not all art has survived. And apparently the old World of Warcraft is back?

> but also against playing any MMO.

MMOs are a case where the game itself inherently requires a serious server in order to work. I don't play MMOs myself, but if I did, I would not be bothered by their server-based nature as there's an obviously inescapable reason for it.

That is not representative of most games.

Re: "Google Stadia is not a product that exists because people want it"

#257

My only issue with Stadia is that Google has no policy regarding what happens to the games you have purchased if/when they shut down the service. Well, I guess they have a policy - and that is "you don't own these games, you temporarily own the rights to use them while this service is running." I take solace knowing that the $60+ games I buy for my PC or Switch are mine because I have local copies. I am not going to…

Steam only has a promise that they’ll give you the games without DRM if they shut down.

Id much prefer something more legally binding.

Re: "Google Stadia is not a product that exists because people want it"

#258
post #237

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I've read reviews yesterday and was amazed by the lack of a long term vision from the reviewers. In my experience you should should never buy a product for what it might be one day and instead only pay for the what you're getting on day one. That way you're never disappointed/always get what you paid for. For example I recently purchased an Oculus Rift. I waited until enough games released so that I couldn't be dis…

> Stadia costs $129 with no games. Stadia is a service which Google says will be free in 2020. The $129 "Stadia FE" is a controller ($79 a la carte) and a Chromecast Ultra ($69 a la carte). "Stadia FE" also comes with two games: Destiny 2 and Samurai Showdown.

the fact that google is trying to to use a fighting game to showcase their product should tell you everything you need to know about their understanding of the market.

Re: "Google Stadia is not a product that exists because people want it"

#259
post #203
post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> the lack of a long term vision How about this for a long term vision: any game you buy now will be totally lost in the future ("long term") when Google decides to shut down the service (which happens all the time) or deactivate your account (which also happens all the time) while developers will have moved on and/or closed and wont give a second thought about. In the meanwhile, while Stadia exists, any games will b…

>when Google decides to shut down the service (which happens all the time) What service has Google shut down that you paid for ? >deactivate your account (which also happens all the time) When has Google randomly deactivated your account without compensation for something that you paid for? You are making some gigantic leaps of internet logic here to be honest.. no one is going to deny they have an interesting record…

Chromecast Audio, Nexus, Nest? Even the Pixel, their "flagship" phone, has only gotten 3 years of updates, ending this year [0]. That, and just look at the YouTube debacle and how they treat creators. Fool me once...

[0] https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2019/11/rip-og-pixel-google-...

Re: "Google Stadia is not a product that exists because people want it"

#260
Hopefully Stadia encourages more publishers to make games that work across platforms, especially multiplayer games. I think cross-platform play is one of the main reasons Fortnite is so popular.

I am skeptical about everything else, especially with the direction Google’s management has steering toward, but curious what will happen.

Are more ads and abusive user tracking in games the price of ”free”? Would all ads and tracking really be turned off if paying a monthly or yearly fee? What happens when the network goes down or the service is retired? What happens to modding? Who controls what can or cannot be said, and what can and cannot be criticized, or even mentioned, in a story?

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