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Apple Moves Mac Pro Production to China

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281–290 of 336 posts

Re: Apple Moves Mac Pro Production to China

#281

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The difference being that China's culture, for the most part, is okay with the surveillance state. If they weren't, how would you know? Do you honestly think anyone who isn't would be dumb enough to say so out loud, especially to a pollster or a foreigner?

Fair enough, it could be survivor bias, but the firewall is so easy to bypass with a VPN that it would most likely be more evident. Anecdotally I spent half a year in China, and whenever I brought up the censorship with people who lived there, I got more than just a few responses where they rolled their eyes and said we (Americans) are obsessed with it, followed up with, "Who cares?"

My point wasn't entirely about survivorship bias. People in a surveillance state are going to be especially careful about what they say to people like foreigners and journalists, as those are people who are likely to be under even more close surveillance than are average citizens. So whatever you say to them is very likely going to be something you say in the hearing of the government, even if the person themselves does their best to keep your secret.

Re: Apple Moves Mac Pro Production to China

#282
post #125

For years I've been very happy, productive, and at times stubbornly loyal on my Linux / Lenovo setup, but it seems that so many of my colleagues have embraced Mac that it's gotten harder and harder to not be on the bandwagon. I recently hit the point of deciding maybe I should just have a Mac, but I seem to have done so after Macbook Pros have passed their peak. I don't follow consumer hardware trends much, so what d…

There were basically three things that made Macbooks very appealing to developers before: 1) Very good hardware at a not-huge markup when compared apples-to-apples (haha) with Wintel hardware. 2) Unixy OS with outstanding Just Works but it's not your fault should it fail to Just Work, as in "ugh Tom's laptop won't connect to the projector again, because he insists on running Linux." 3) Excellent pick-up-and-go, thank…

I prefer the new keyboard to the old one. And the touchpad is still the best touchpad in the industry by a long shot.

Re: Apple Moves Mac Pro Production to China

#283
post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your points are completely valid, I get your frustration. But you are comparing against previous generations of MacBooks. I would like to know your thoughts when comparing against e.g. a top tier ThinkPad running Windows or Linux.

I couldn’t use it long enough to unlearn using the trackpad as a crutch. Thinkpad trackpads are pretty terrible by comparison. I also hated trying to use windows and didn’t want to keep maintaining a Linux install, though that might have gotten better lately. I am going to ride out my personal 2013 mbp until they fix the keyboards on the new machines. I have a new one at work, and each incremental fix still breaks af…

The X1 Carbon has a really nice body, and a decent screen. The touchpad is still hot garbage, and I never really enjoyed using the nub, but overall they've come closer than anything I've used to unseating my MBP as a daily driver.

Re: Apple Moves Mac Pro Production to China

#285

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

How is that story demonstrably false? Can you point to an article that demonstrates that?

I've noticed some folks are unhappy with the term 'concentration camp' but academics and historians largely consider it historically accurate: https://www.newsweek.com/alexandria-ocasio-cortez-concentrat...

Re: Apple Moves Mac Pro Production to China

#286

For years I've been very happy, productive, and at times stubbornly loyal on my Linux / Lenovo setup, but it seems that so many of my colleagues have embraced Mac that it's gotten harder and harder to not be on the bandwagon. I recently hit the point of deciding maybe I should just have a Mac, but I seem to have done so after Macbook Pros have passed their peak. I don't follow consumer hardware trends much, so what d…

If you're open to Windows consider checking out the Razer Blade 15" laptop. I'm biased because I play video games but it's as nicely made as any computer apple ever made, with great hardware.

Re: Apple Moves Mac Pro Production to China

#287

Interesting that 80% of the American production line workers were paid minimum wage and had no benefits. Do the workers in China make more and get benefits? How does this align with the common claim that American manufacturing is a no-go because labor and benefit costs are simply too high.

Workers in China make less and get fewer benefits.

Re: Apple Moves Mac Pro Production to China

#289

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So the persons pointless comment is no problem but my question is? Why? The commenter does not give any sign to why the size may be relevant so the only special thing about the sentence is the name of the company. As if that may be enough to kill the long and descriptive comment above. The second answer by someone else followed up on this bait. At the topic of size: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20309140

The person’s comment is a reasonable, if low effort, comment. The exchange is “companies go to stable countries”, “no they go wherever short term profit leads”, and the comment says “Apple is too big not to think of long term stability”. Which is a point, even if it’s not substantiated. Even if it’s not true it’s a reasonable claim to reply with. Your question is a problem because it’s a fake-innocent question, with…

Yes. I wish I hadn't made the comment. I think it's just obvious that certain classes of products and companies that build them that have longer planning cycles

Maybe rossdavidh's comment was reasonable in general. But with Apple you have a long term CEO under essentially no pressure for succession. You have product cycles that are going to push two years. You have supply chains that are going to involve dozens or more firms. You have a premium luxury brand. There is so much working against the idea that Apple, specifically, is make short term decisions at the expense of the long term. Still, Apple is not special, per se. It's executing astonishingly well, but I'd expect other capex heavy companies (auto manufacturing, vertically integrated oil e&p, and other hardware-weighted electronics, among others) to approach similar classes of decisions with similar care.

Part of the reason I regret engaging is because this thread is pretty far off topic. This is a low volume product and it's going to an existing partner. It's a minor decision and say nothing about stability in the US or China. The only reason it's getting coverage is because it moves their only US manufacturing to Taiwan or Shanghai.

edit: rossdavidh - I think we're wading a bit too far into hypotheticals. Moving Mac Pro production to Quanex closer to their existing supply chain is not an example of the behavior you described (but I won't deny happens)

Re: Apple Moves Mac Pro Production to China

#290
post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your points are completely valid, I get your frustration. But you are comparing against previous generations of MacBooks. I would like to know your thoughts when comparing against e.g. a top tier ThinkPad running Windows or Linux.

I couldn’t use it long enough to unlearn using the trackpad as a crutch. Thinkpad trackpads are pretty terrible by comparison. I also hated trying to use windows and didn’t want to keep maintaining a Linux install, though that might have gotten better lately. I am going to ride out my personal 2013 mbp until they fix the keyboards on the new machines. I have a new one at work, and each incremental fix still breaks af…

You could try an apple trackpad and a good keyboard alongside some other hardware.
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