Apple announces Apple Card credit card • Hacker News Board

Re: Apple announces Apple Card credit card

#281

Post by bubblethink » Mon, Mar 25, 2019, 6:53 PM UTC

nabaraz wrote: post #25

With the rise of smartphone payments like Samsung Pay, Android Pay and Apple Pay , is there even a need for credit cards? How long until these companies start skipping payment processors like Visa and Mastercard and take the whole pie?

>is there even a need for credit cards?

Yes, I don't care for running any of these blobs or other DRM garbage on my phone. And what's the selling point ? I don't see the difference between pulling out my card v/s pulling out my phone. Decent security (chip & pin for eg. or other 2nd factor) is perfectly possible with cards. US is just backwards in matters like these. We don't need to beat the security strawman.

Re: Apple announces Apple Card credit card

#282

Post by hylaride » Mon, Mar 25, 2019, 6:53 PM UTC

Liquix wrote: post #274

eridius wrote: post #213

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apple said they've engineered the service such that Apple does not know what you're purchasing or even what vendors you're shopping at. If Apple doesn't know this, they can't very well apply arbitrary rules to it.

What do they gain from offering the card if they are not harvesting transaction data? Is it possible that this is some legal gymnastics (i.e. Goldman-Sachs receives the 'Apple doesn't know' data and promptly send it over to them under an opaque 'we share information with our affiliates' clause)? It does seem like a lot of work and potential risk if the sole purpose is to increase user dependency on the Apple ecosyste…

Credit Card issuers get a percentage of everything you spend, so Apple gains that.

Re: Apple announces Apple Card credit card

#283

Post by jonknee » Mon, Mar 25, 2019, 6:53 PM UTC

nabaraz wrote: post #25

With the rise of smartphone payments like Samsung Pay, Android Pay and Apple Pay , is there even a need for credit cards? How long until these companies start skipping payment processors like Visa and Mastercard and take the whole pie?

Samsung Pay, Android Pay and Apple Pay all are primarily just a different way to use a credit card. They're competing against the physical way cards are processed, not the cards.

Re: Apple announces Apple Card credit card

#284

Post by spectramax » Mon, Mar 25, 2019, 6:53 PM UTC

jdlyga wrote: post #262

2% if you use Apple Pay, and 1% if you use the physical card. That's not a very competitive offering.

I think the whole idea of "Cash back" is insane. Someone, i.e. the consumer, is ultimately paying for these rewards, whether it is airline miles or cashback % or whatever.

It is a self-propelling idea that would be almost impossible to kill because doing so would make your credit card offering less competitive.

It is also self-propelling from the consumer end. If you don't take advantage of these rewards, you're paying for everyone else's rewards by buying goods and services at a higher price. Some merchants flat out deny certain credit cards such as AMEX.

Re: Apple announces Apple Card credit card

#285

Post by gerry_shaw » Mon, Mar 25, 2019, 6:54 PM UTC

Liquix wrote: post #274

eridius wrote: post #213

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apple said they've engineered the service such that Apple does not know what you're purchasing or even what vendors you're shopping at. If Apple doesn't know this, they can't very well apply arbitrary rules to it.

What do they gain from offering the card if they are not harvesting transaction data? Is it possible that this is some legal gymnastics (i.e. Goldman-Sachs receives the 'Apple doesn't know' data and promptly send it over to them under an opaque 'we share information with our affiliates' clause)? It does seem like a lot of work and potential risk if the sole purpose is to increase user dependency on the Apple ecosyste…

Agree that health skepticism is warranted here but it might also be that they are trying to re-think the credit card experience to improve it for everybody.

Re: Apple announces Apple Card credit card

#286

Post by legulere » Mon, Mar 25, 2019, 6:54 PM UTC

nabaraz wrote: post #25

With the rise of smartphone payments like Samsung Pay, Android Pay and Apple Pay , is there even a need for credit cards? How long until these companies start skipping payment processors like Visa and Mastercard and take the whole pie?

In a lot of places all around the world credit cards always played a minor role. Usually the lack of credit cards in Germany is attributed to being a cash-only country, but I guess it has more to do with wire transfers and direct debit being basically for free. For shopping physically there's also additionally a national direct debit system (called girocard), organized directly by the banks with much lower fees than credit cards.

Re: Apple announces Apple Card credit card

#287

Post by djmobley » Mon, Mar 25, 2019, 6:55 PM UTC

weego wrote: post #96

nabaraz wrote: post #25

With the rise of smartphone payments like Samsung Pay, Android Pay and Apple Pay , is there even a need for credit cards? How long until these companies start skipping payment processors like Visa and Mastercard and take the whole pie?

I've never owned a credit card but I've used my debit card directly twice since Christmas because GPay is available everywhere. It's only the ceiling on contactless transactions (£30) that requires me to use it

Would advise against using a debit card for anything.

Credit cards give better consumer protection, less hassle if your card gets cloned, and (if used sensibly) help your credit rating.

Re: Apple announces Apple Card credit card

#288

Post by vxNsr » Mon, Mar 25, 2019, 6:56 PM UTC

throw0101a wrote: post #191

bunderbunder wrote: post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not allowing you to carry a balance makes the card less flexible, since it takes away the ability to use the card to finance items you can't afford to pay in full right now. At least in the US, charge cards also (historically) charged higher fees to retailers, so a lot of stores wouldn't accept them.

> [...] ability to use the card to finance items you can't afford to pay in full right now. Given the rates charged by many cards, I'm not sure you'd want to do that. The US has an average of 15%: * https://www.creditkarma.com/credit-cards/i/average-apr-on-cr... * https://www.valuepenguin.com/average-credit-card-interest-ra...

So much this. I've never carried a balance on a card that charges interest. but I would be more open to the idea if they charged interest more inline with market loan rates. 15-35% is insane.

Re: Apple announces Apple Card credit card

#289

Post by mortenjorck » Mon, Mar 25, 2019, 6:57 PM UTC

intopieces wrote: post #92

danesparza wrote: post #30

I wish they had a debit card. I would love a debit card with all these features.

Why do you prefer a debit card over a credit card?

I don’t know about the OP’s reasoning, but for me, it’s much easier to track spending with only a debit card than with a credit card that I periodically pay off from my checking account. A single stream of transactions is much easier to budget than one that cascades into the other.

Re: Apple announces Apple Card credit card

#290

Post by m-p-3 » Mon, Mar 25, 2019, 6:57 PM UTC

eridius wrote: post #213

throwawaysea wrote: post #172

I don't thing it is healthy to have big entities like this control fundamental services like payment processing. How long before the opaque governance of the App Store is applied to their payments offering? How long before activists start making this a new vector for deplatforming? Apple also announced a news offering ( https://www.techradar.com/news/apple-news-plus ) and I think the same concerns apply there.

Apple said they've engineered the service such that Apple does not know what you're purchasing or even what vendors you're shopping at. If Apple doesn't know this, they can't very well apply arbitrary rules to it.

Still at the mercy of Goldman Sachs.