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Chevy Volt discontinued: Chevrolet's last Volt rolls off the assembly line

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Re: Chevy Volt discontinued: Chevrolet's last Volt rolls off the assembly line

#281
post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>With current battery tech and infrastructure, EV is a 50 mile technology. It has nothing to do with battery tech itself, doesn't matter how light or dense the battery is. The limit is infrastructure. 50 miles is about what you can charge with a level 1 charger overnight. The vast majority of first-time EV buyers also install a 240v charging station, which typically costs about $1200 including labour and will fully c…

> You might be surprised at how long it actually takes you It takes 15 to 20 minutes. I know because I watch the GPS and I check the ETA number after a stop. Will 20 minutes be enough for 3 hours of driving?

Maybe with the new 150KWh charger and a compatible car like the Audi eTron. Could be worth looking at in five years when this becomes more widespread.

Re: Chevy Volt discontinued: Chevrolet's last Volt rolls off the assembly line

#282

This was really shortsighted. PHEV is currently the best technology. I think the push for full EV is premature for mass market. It works for niche cases like Tesla, but not something that can be truly mainstream. With current battery tech and infrastructure, EV is a 50 mile technology. It has nothing to do with battery tech itself, doesn't matter how light or dense the battery is. The limit is infrastructure. 50 mile…

300 miles is still no where close to what some ICE cars get. I can go about 600 miles on a tank - and I have before without stopping. I want an EV badly but I just can’t do my regular Portland to LA drives in them right now.

I'm impressed that you can concentrate that long. That's got to be over 8 hours of driving non-stop. No toilet breaks.

I think most people would need to stop a couple of times on route. I doubt EVs will ever be suitable for you.

Re: Chevy Volt discontinued: Chevrolet's last Volt rolls off the assembly line

#283

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> the linked report... Am I reading page 43 right? The cost of the battery in the Volt is currently $12,300? That's almost exactly 90% of the selling price of my new ICE vehicle! Q: What's the projected lifespan of the battery pack in a Volt?

>Am I reading page 43 right? The cost of the battery in the Volt is currently $12,300? That's almost exactly 90% of the selling price of my new ICE vehicle! Yup, and it's why falling battery costs are such a big deal for the EV industry. It's worth thinking about the battery as a pre-payment for fuel; it's very expensive up front, but it substantially reduces your cost per mile for the life of the car. Q: What's the…

> The Bolt's battery pack has an 8 year/100,000 mile warranty, with a maximum capacity loss of 40% during that period.

If one were to attempt to market an ICE vehicle that lost "up to 40% engine performance" over 8 years/100k miles, one would struggle.

> EVs may prove to be surprisingly durable

There are many cheap, modern ICE vehicles that are already surprisingly durable - I have the service receipts for the 9 year old VW Polo (bought new, and which we traded in in 2015) as a data point.

Again, I wish EVs were already competitive, but aren't they still stuck as a lifestyle choice for those with "spare money"?

Re: Chevy Volt discontinued: Chevrolet's last Volt rolls off the assembly line

#284

Earlier quoted context omitted.

300 miles is still no where close to what some ICE cars get. I can go about 600 miles on a tank - and I have before without stopping. I want an EV badly but I just can’t do my regular Portland to LA drives in them right now.

I'm impressed that you can concentrate that long. That's got to be over 8 hours of driving non-stop. No toilet breaks. I think most people would need to stop a couple of times on route. I doubt EVs will ever be suitable for you.

Usually I do stop a few times, but recently decided to just power through it. Last time I didn't even realize how much time had passed until the gas light came on.

6-8 hours is about what I can do on a plane without getting up too so it's not too bad for me. Truckers do it all the time too so it's not that rare.

Edit:

If electric can get to 400+ miles (already there almost) I'll be sold. That's enough for me to do the entire trip with only adding an extra stop if I drove nonstop. When I calculated with the 200-300 mile range a year or so ago it would have been too much waiting around for a charge.

Re: Chevy Volt discontinued: Chevrolet's last Volt rolls off the assembly line

#285
I fit the concept of the Volt perfectly; Married, Mid 40's male, one kid (6yo), under 50 miles 5 of 7 days a week, wife drives SUV so we have that when needed. Spring of 2017 I was ready for new car and I so wanted to get a Volt as I've been eyeing it for a few years (especially the new revamped model) thinking I would be ahead of all our friends in going EV and saw myself at parties telling people how I haven't been to gas station in months, etc. I lurked Volt Forums, read all car review sites and was ready.

Then the actual shopping started and reality set... I visited all Chevy dealers in a 30 mile radius of my house, about 4 of them. It quickly became very apparent how this car was just a thorn in GM's side and I got the feeling they did not want to sell this car if they could help it.

First dealer I went to for a specific one they had I wanted. When I got there I was told it was at their spillover lot and they couldn't get it that late (7p). But they had one exactly like it just different color right outside I could test drive. The salesman finding the keys for it were a "challenge" and I waited 20 minutes for him to locate them. In the meantime while waiting he asked me if I would be interested in any other of their models, some they have "below wholesale" deals for that would be better than the Volt to own. After telling him no, we got the keys and went to the car outside. I get in to start it, drive it around and notice that we are on the combustion engine the WHOLE time. He didn't know what I was talking about as I explained what the dash was showing - that the main battery was dead and needed an over night charge. He comes back to look for a battery charger and I again tell him he doesn't understand as it isn't a starter type battery typically in cars that needed a charge. I frustratingly left.

Second dealer would not go more than $1k lower from sticker on the one I wanted. Wouldn't budge. I showed him how far off he was to Truecar pricing, explained that these things aren't selling well and here I am for a deal I can feel good about. He then tried to suggest I would be better off in the used Volt market for the price I was trying to get, which wasn't out of realm to what others were getting deals at on Forums. I left.

Other two dealers didn't even have that many Volts on hand but said they could order. Again we got to prices and I'd order one if right for me and they both told me same as above that this city this car is a premium and there are no discounts given, best they could do blah blah. Especially if they have to order one. I was able to test drive one fully charged at one of these dealers though.

The test drive was with my son this time. Him with me realized just how compact this car was, and he wasn't getting smaller. My previous car was a 2007 Mazda3 and it felt roomier inside. With my seat all the way back for my desired driving position, we would not be able to fit a second kid back there. I'd have to scoot pretty far up for him to sit behind me. The quality of the interior actually impressed me and the tech is very cool, but this car even felt smaller than the new Cruze model they had in same showroom.

The size of this car is what ultimately made it fail IMO as well as them just not wanting to sell/push for it compared to even the Cruze or Malibu. It seems like they were more interested in selling the Equinox, Malibu and pickup trucks as those dominated the lots. Buyers as a whole have started to want more room and larger vehicles as evident in the sales numbers past few years in USA, and compact cars were a dead man walking. This is what this car was. A Subcompact car with a 33k sticker price that a majority would take one look at and wonder who hell buys this when the Cruze is 20k. It takes a LOT of miles/gas to make up that difference.

There is also the 7.5k tax credit that would, on paper, drop this car down in price, but still more than a fully loaded Cruze and in some cases I could get a bigger Malibu for not much more (this all at the time over a year ago). To get that tax credit means you have to owe the IRS that much in taxes, which we never come close to each year. You owe less that 7.5k, your tax credit is less! You owe nothing or get refunds each year (us) you get ZERO credit.

I then started to look at used market and started to notice these things were asking prices of more than what new would cost with a full tax credit and there were also very few of them in my area to choose from that had low miles. Basically all ridiculously overpriced enough to where even expert negotiating would be hard pressed to get me a good deal.

In the end, I just ended up realizing the Volt wasn't for me, no matter how much I wanted it. I'd be sacrificing space and my wife even asked how I could even think of getting such a small car as my last one was small enough. It was priced as premium from dealers who were oblivious to how poor it was selling it seemed and didn't want to move it regardless. I'd have to really change up our W4's so we could maybe even get the full tax credit. Plus with the poor dealership mentality of this car all in my area, I even questioned how well they'd handle warranty issues or repair when I eventually needed them.

The Bolt was so new at the time so it wasn't an option/available in my area and any that were in next state over were MSRP and no budge. I'd be highly interested in the Bolt if I was doing it all over right now, but in the end I moved on from the Volt never to really think again about owning one. America has moved on from compact cars as well. I have one year left on a lease and next year i will look at the Kona and Bolt but also in a segment I thought i'd never want to drive - the compact SUV. CX-5 or Rav4 types. I want an EV bad but it is hard to justify from a economic standpoint still in 2019.

Re: Chevy Volt discontinued: Chevrolet's last Volt rolls off the assembly line

#286

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm impressed that you can concentrate that long. That's got to be over 8 hours of driving non-stop. No toilet breaks. I think most people would need to stop a couple of times on route. I doubt EVs will ever be suitable for you.

Usually I do stop a few times, but recently decided to just power through it. Last time I didn't even realize how much time had passed until the gas light came on. 6-8 hours is about what I can do on a plane without getting up too so it's not too bad for me. Truckers do it all the time too so it's not that rare. Edit: If electric can get to 400+ miles (already there almost) I'll be sold. That's enough for me to do th…

You don't have to concentrate when flying. What's the legal limit in the US for truck drivers without a break? In the EU its 4.5 hours https://www.gov.uk/drivers-hours/eu-rules

Re: Chevy Volt discontinued: Chevrolet's last Volt rolls off the assembly line

#287

Should have been new Brand. I feel like the Chevy logo and branding didn't help much with Volt sales. They could have done something similar to what Toyota did with Scion. Create a unique logo and branding. Create a high tech brand that isn't associated with "Chevy". Is that just me?

The Scion brand was a total failure and Toyota closed it down. GM used to have about 10 different brands but that just led to customer confusion and was a waste of resources.

Re: Chevy Volt discontinued: Chevrolet's last Volt rolls off the assembly line

#288

This was really shortsighted. PHEV is currently the best technology. I think the push for full EV is premature for mass market. It works for niche cases like Tesla, but not something that can be truly mainstream. With current battery tech and infrastructure, EV is a 50 mile technology. It has nothing to do with battery tech itself, doesn't matter how light or dense the battery is. The limit is infrastructure. 50 mile…

>With current battery tech and infrastructure, EV is a 50 mile technology. It has nothing to do with battery tech itself, doesn't matter how light or dense the battery is. The limit is infrastructure. 50 miles is about what you can charge with a level 1 charger overnight. The vast majority of first-time EV buyers also install a 240v charging station, which typically costs about $1200 including labour and will fully c…

> a 240v charging station, which typically costs about $1200 including labour

or buy a L2 charger that plugs into their 220 dryer outlet for $250

Re: Chevy Volt discontinued: Chevrolet's last Volt rolls off the assembly line

#289

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Usually I do stop a few times, but recently decided to just power through it. Last time I didn't even realize how much time had passed until the gas light came on. 6-8 hours is about what I can do on a plane without getting up too so it's not too bad for me. Truckers do it all the time too so it's not that rare. Edit: If electric can get to 400+ miles (already there almost) I'll be sold. That's enough for me to do th…

You don't have to concentrate when flying. What's the legal limit in the US for truck drivers without a break? In the EU its 4.5 hours https://www.gov.uk/drivers-hours/eu-rules

I fly when it's cheaper (not counting my time). If I can find flights ~100-150/rt then that's a possible solution, but adding a rental car + parking at airport often makes it just cheaper to drive. And besides, I enjoy it.

Per DOT rules, truckers here are allowed up to 8 hours non stop, with a mandatory 30 minute break if they go over. They can drive up to 11 hours in a 14 hour window.

https://www.fmcsa.dot.gov/sites/fmcsa.dot.gov/files/docs/Dri...

Re: Chevy Volt discontinued: Chevrolet's last Volt rolls off the assembly line

#290

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> How practical is that currently? It's not, but it could be. There are no fundamental technical barriers to overcome, just social ones.

I don't see any significant social barriers - it's just a matter of infrastructure. Drivers need to be able to depend on the availability of reliable chargers.

Public infrastructure is a social issue. It's one thing for a private company to set up a network of gas stations, it's another for an entire country to agree on gasoline standards and regulation so every car can use them. Electric cars will need similar standards, Tesla won't be able to do it on its own.
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