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America’s Professional Elite: Wealthy, Successful and Miserable

nytimes.com

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Re: America’s Professional Elite: Wealthy, Successful and Miserable

#281

Post by 3pt14159 »

rglover wrote: post #87
naravara wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>what world are these people living in that you can't give up a job that you hate because you can't afford to live on 500-600k. The one where you lock into a mortgage and a car that assumes a $1.2M salary to keep ahead of. It's really easy to let your lifestyle expenses balloon, especially in a high-COL city where minor increases in living space/amenities can end up costing large amounts of money.

Yup. The golden rule: don't ratchet up your lifestyle when your income rises and you'll be far happier in the long run. Also don't give a damn what people think about you. Typically people get trapped in that mouse wheel because "look what they have."

Yep. And if you get windfall and are really itching to spend it do yourself a favour and research what stuff is expensive but lasts. In NPV terms you'll be saving money, but you won't be pulling on hard-to-escape expenses.

Source: I sold a company and quadrupled my spend on housing. Something stupid that I regret. But I also spent money on high quality stuff that is still lasting almost a decade later.

Re: America’s Professional Elite: Wealthy, Successful and Miserable

#282

Post by jseliger »

naravara wrote: post #22
strikelaserclaw wrote: post #6

- He had received an offer at a start-up, and he would have loved to take it, but it paid half as much, and he felt locked into a lifestyle that made this pay cut impossible. “My wife laughed when I told her about it,” he said. Sounds like a good wife to me, and this "pay cut" is making 500k-600k instead of 1.2 million, what world are these people living in that you can't give up a job that you hate because you can't…

>what world are these people living in that you can't give up a job that you hate because you can't afford to live on 500-600k. The one where you lock into a mortgage and a car that assumes a $1.2M salary to keep ahead of. It's really easy to let your lifestyle expenses balloon, especially in a high-COL city where minor increases in living space/amenities can end up costing large amounts of money.

I'm surprised no one here has yet name-checked Tom Wolfe's Bonfire of the Vanities. There is a famous comedic passage in which Sherman McCoy discusses his expenditures relative to his (vast) income.

EDIT:

One breath of scandal—

—his spirits plunged even lower. One breath of scandal, and not only would the Giscard scheme collapse but his very career would be finished! And what would he do then? I'm already going broke on a million dollars a year! The appalling figures came popping up into his brain. Last year his income had been $980,000. But he had to pay $21,000 a month for the $1.8 million loan he had taken out to buy the apartment. What was $21,000 a month to someone making a million a year? That was the way he had thought of it at the same—and in fact, it was merely a crushing, grinding burden—that was all! It came to $252,000 a year, none of it deductible, because it was a personal loan, not a mortgage. (The cooperative boards in Good Park Avenue Buildings like his didn't allow you to take out a mortgage on your apartment.) So, considering the taxes, it required $420,000 in income to pay the $252,000. Of the $560,000 remaining of his income last year, $44,400 was required for the apartment's monthly maintenance fees; $116,000 for the house on Old Drover's Mooring Lane in Southampton ($84,000 for mortgage payment and interest, $18,000 for heat, utilities, insurance, and repairs, $6,000 for lawn and hedge cutting, $8,000 for taxes). Entertaining at home and in restaurants had come to $18,000.

-------------

It goes on. The guy needs Mr. Money Mustache.

Re: America’s Professional Elite: Wealthy, Successful and Miserable

#283

Post by telchar »

vasilipupkin wrote: post #183
zhobbs wrote: post #163

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"According to Census data, the median household income in Palo Alto is $137,000 a year, while the US average is $57,600" from: https://www.cnet.com/news/silicon-valley-middle-class-earns-...

I think this type of Census data understates household incomes. I am not exactly sure why, but Atherton comes in at about 400k a year per household. That is a lot, but doesn't seem like a lot for Atherton.

You don't want to rely on it for means because the high incomes are capped at a relatively low level so that they don't out high-earners in sparse areas. But that shouldn't affect medians.

Re: America’s Professional Elite: Wealthy, Successful and Miserable

#284

Post by zaccus »

naravara wrote: post #22
strikelaserclaw wrote: post #6

- He had received an offer at a start-up, and he would have loved to take it, but it paid half as much, and he felt locked into a lifestyle that made this pay cut impossible. “My wife laughed when I told her about it,” he said. Sounds like a good wife to me, and this "pay cut" is making 500k-600k instead of 1.2 million, what world are these people living in that you can't give up a job that you hate because you can't…

>what world are these people living in that you can't give up a job that you hate because you can't afford to live on 500-600k. The one where you lock into a mortgage and a car that assumes a $1.2M salary to keep ahead of. It's really easy to let your lifestyle expenses balloon, especially in a high-COL city where minor increases in living space/amenities can end up costing large amounts of money.

So... sell your expensive shit and buy less expensive shit. That's what us plebs are expected to do. No one's locked into anything.

Re: America’s Professional Elite: Wealthy, Successful and Miserable

#285

Post by gthippo »

throwaway-1283 wrote: post #256
vasilipupkin wrote: post #183

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think this type of Census data understates household incomes. I am not exactly sure why, but Atherton comes in at about 400k a year per household. That is a lot, but doesn't seem like a lot for Atherton.

What you put on your tax return every year doesn't really reflect your actual wealth. Even in tech most people top out at ~$200k-$250k base salaries but you may vest and accumulate millions in stock RSUs that you don't sell in a given year.

Don't RSUs show up on the W-2 as income though (even if you don't sell them)?

Re: America’s Professional Elite: Wealthy, Successful and Miserable

#286

Post by caleblloyd »

glitchc wrote: post #224
dclusin wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The median annual earnings of palo altans is about $400k/year. That's probably workable for cheaper areas like south palo alto where a house built in the 80s will run you $2.5 mil. Move closer to downtown and you could easily double or triple your necessary annual take.

Stock options are not counted as income. They are exactly that: Stock options. Your income is your take-home pay, specifically gross pay on your stub extrapolated to annual salary. Yes, there is capital income from stocks and other market investments, but appreciation for those comes under capital gains, which are calculated (and taxed) separately, and don’t count as employment income, for good reason: You can’t use…

The spread between purchase and grant price for Incentive Stock Options actually is counted towards income for Alternative Minimum Tax.

Re: America’s Professional Elite: Wealthy, Successful and Miserable

#287

Post by badpun »

randomacct3847 wrote: post #2

I think there was a Blind post a few weeks ago where 40% said they were depressed despite most making $300k-$600k/year

The kinds of jobs that pay so much tend to not be very satisfying and come with high levels of stress. It's no wonder that the end result is depression.

Re: America’s Professional Elite: Wealthy, Successful and Miserable

#288

Post by nradov »

o_nate wrote: post #198
akavi wrote: post #19

The article seems to be omitting an important piece of data: Are people who make more money less happy/equally happy/more happy than people who make less? It implies by its framing that they're less happy, but that's not actually supported by any actual data in the piece (though to be fair, on cursory googling I wasn't able to find any evidence one way or another).

I don't think there's any known objective way to measure happiness.

True in general, but high stress is correlated with un-happiness, and can be objectively measured based on blood cortisol levels (at least for people with normal endocrine systems).

Re: America’s Professional Elite: Wealthy, Successful and Miserable

#289

Post by seem_2211 »

JDiculous wrote: post #278
seem_2211 wrote: post #255

I think we're focusing on the wrong thing here (broadly), which is mocking the guy making $1.2m a year. Yes, that's a lot of money, and almost all of us (myself included) struggle to see how to spend that money. But at the same time, I feel some empathy for that guy - he's increased his expenses proportionally and he feels trapped doing something he doesn't enjoy with no end in sight. I know I've moved my expenses up…

Most people don't have the luxury of being their own bosses. For these people, financial independence will enable them to leave their unfulfilling jobs and pursue their own passions, whether it be starting a small business like you or getting a job that pays less but is more fulfilling. Most people are living paycheck to paycheck with little savings, and thus don't have the freedom to walk away from their jobs.

If you are saving towards financial independence you have the luxury of choosing if you'd like to be your own boss, or indeed if you'd like a job that pays less.

Most people are living paycheck to paycheck, but those are not the people who are saving for FI.

Re: America’s Professional Elite: Wealthy, Successful and Miserable

#290

Post by earthscienceman »

scruple wrote: post #167
ip26 wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Have you actually dug ditches for a few weeks? It's a popular rhetorical device but I wonder how many engineers have actually done stints of hard labor.

I have, yes. I've also framed homes, roofed homes, and water proofed basements. I spent some time landscaping. I've held a variety of manual labor jobs, from working fields to construction to warehouses and factory floors to the military. Today, I'm a team lead and senior software engineer. I'd also rather be outside again all day, working with and alongside people, physically and towards goals we can visualize, doin…

Goddamn. Can we be coworkers? I've worked countless manual labor jobs and am now crammed in an office. If I have to be here, I'd at least like to have coworkers who have your notion of cohesion and vision.
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