Apple blocks Google from running its internal iOS apps • Hacker News Board

Re: Apple blocks Google from running its internal iOS apps

#281

Post by criley2 » Thu, Jan 31, 2019, 10:53 PM UTC

mjw1007 wrote: post #259

jechamt wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is the key sentiment I feel is missing from much of the discussions (and in some cases, reporting) taking place surrounding these events this week. Thank you for posting it. It's useful to discuss the philosophical implications of any tech company having too much power. To add the most to that discussion, it's helpful to understand that these actions are not directly affecting customers (aside from those who wer…

Random iPhone-using Google employees who use Google's internal cafe app are Apple customers, and they're directly affected. Clearly that's not a terribly big deal, and you'd imagine that Google has a lower proportion of iPhone users than many companies, but it's not nothing.

They're professionally affected (they can't run internal apps as part of their job) as is good and appropriate (their company violated the rules and got cut).

They are not personally affected as they still have access to public versions of the apps like every other person in America.

Re: Apple blocks Google from running its internal iOS apps

#282

Post by dekhn » Thu, Jan 31, 2019, 10:53 PM UTC

Googlers should be asking: did the folks who did this go through privacy and security review, because I'm really surprised this was approved.

Re: Apple blocks Google from running its internal iOS apps

#283

Post by ce4 » Thu, Jan 31, 2019, 10:53 PM UTC

blhack wrote: post #214

askafriend wrote: post #43

Let’s say you’re using a Google API like Maps, and you violate terms by snapshotting sections of their maps and storing them on your severs so you can serve static maps without making API calls. They’d shut down your API access immediately Google and Facebook both knew the terms. They both knew that the Enterprise Distribution Program was for internal use only. They still put ads out in the wild to recruit regular co…

Because lots of people still think that if you own a piece of hardware, you should be able to run whatever code you want on it.

To downvoters: That point is valid.

It's the golden cage that allowed them to do of course good things this time. This argument is the old one against a walled garden and it still stands.

Re: Apple blocks Google from running its internal iOS apps

#284

Post by ocdtrekkie » Thu, Jan 31, 2019, 10:54 PM UTC

GeekyBear wrote: post #237

Google immediately admitted that they were aware that what they had done violated those terms. >A Google spokesperson told The Verge, “The Screenwise Meter iOS app should not have operated under Apple’s developer enterprise program — this was a mistake, and we apologize. https://www.theverge.com/2019/1/30/18204064/apple-google-mon...

And so they should be fully understanding why Apple enforced them. Furthermore, the terrifying level of abuse of the Screenwise program has been going on a really, really long time: https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2012/02/google-paying-users-...

It's hard to tell exactly how long the iOS app has been available, but I found version 7.x of the Android app all the way back in 2015 on APKmirror (it's archive only goes back so far). So presumably the mobile app strategy has been around a long time.

Re: Apple blocks Google from running its internal iOS apps

#285

Post by olegbl » Thu, Jan 31, 2019, 10:54 PM UTC

HEHENE wrote: post #276

olegbl wrote: post #230

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have a hard time seeing the distinction between people paid by Google or Facebook to share their phone usage data vs people paid by DoorDash to deliver food. You're probably right though.

"Here's a $20 Amazon gift card for taking a survey" vs. "Here's a 1099 for the $1,200 you earned driving food around last year." One is a consumer, one is a contractor.

Do they really get 1099s? TIL

Seems like this doesn't apply then.

Re: Apple blocks Google from running its internal iOS apps

#286

Post by iainmerrick » Thu, Jan 31, 2019, 10:54 PM UTC

What I really like about both the Facebook and Google scenarios here is that Apple's response causes inconvenience for the developers (the party at fault) but not for end users. Facebook's app still works fine, it's just Facebook employees who are affected.

Before Apple's response, it seemed like Facebook might get away with it because their app is so big and important -- blocking the app would hurt a large fraction of Apple's own customers.

But Apple's response is a clever way to show that, hey, they're big and important too! A large fraction of Facebook's employees use iPhones, not just for developing the iPhone app, but for general work purposes, because the iPhone is a great product. (I wonder how many of those employees will now switch to Android, though...)

Re: Apple blocks Google from running its internal iOS apps

#287

Post by the_duke » Thu, Jan 31, 2019, 10:54 PM UTC

zepto wrote: post #164

the_duke wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That doesn't change the point. As a user, I can not choose what code to run on my iPhone. The only way to run a non-official app would be if the app was open source: put it in testflight for your personal use. This is the main reason I have sworn off all Apple devices.

It does change the point. As a user, you can run any code on your phone. If someone won’t give you the code, but instead will only supply it via Apple’s store, that’s between you and the supplier.

As a developer with a Mac and the knowledge how to do this.

That is a very limited subset of iPhone users.

Re: Apple blocks Google from running its internal iOS apps

#288

Post by olliej » Thu, Jan 31, 2019, 10:54 PM UTC

ChuckMcM wrote: post #131

askafriend wrote: post #43

Let’s say you’re using a Google API like Maps, and you violate terms by snapshotting sections of their maps and storing them on your severs so you can serve static maps without making API calls. They’d shut down your API access immediately Google and Facebook both knew the terms. They both knew that the Enterprise Distribution Program was for internal use only. They still put ads out in the wild to recruit regular co…

Well put. It is an interesting salvo in what I've started thinking of as the "data war." All three companies have a huge asset in data collection capability, and preventing the others from exploiting it is only the first skirmish among them. It will be interesting to see if Google offers to pay additional monies to Apple in order to "restore" this pipeline, and whether or not Apple will agree. In one sense, Apple alr…

Apple actively avoids no anything - the primary difficulty in collecting nothing, and having no access to it, is users expect not to lose data. Even in that case where they’ve lost all of their devices (which could obviously be just a single one). Making that possible was the topic of Ivan Krstic’s talk at black hat a few years ago.

Re: Apple blocks Google from running its internal iOS apps

#289

Post by threeseed » Thu, Jan 31, 2019, 10:55 PM UTC

pier25 wrote: post #210

askafriend wrote: post #43

Let’s say you’re using a Google API like Maps, and you violate terms by snapshotting sections of their maps and storing them on your severs so you can serve static maps without making API calls. They’d shut down your API access immediately Google and Facebook both knew the terms. They both knew that the Enterprise Distribution Program was for internal use only. They still put ads out in the wild to recruit regular co…

I've worked on enterprise iOS apps that were also shared to some of our customers. I've always felt super paranoid about it and thought Apple would shut us down... Seeing what's going on with Facebook and Google I guess Apple didn't pay much attention to this.

Apple can't pay attention to it though.

The whole point of enterprise certificates was to allow creation of internal apps that even Apple shouldn't know about.

Re: Apple blocks Google from running its internal iOS apps

#290

Post by mcmoose75 » Thu, Jan 31, 2019, 10:55 PM UTC

askafriend wrote: post #43

Let’s say you’re using a Google API like Maps, and you violate terms by snapshotting sections of their maps and storing them on your severs so you can serve static maps without making API calls. They’d shut down your API access immediately Google and Facebook both knew the terms. They both knew that the Enterprise Distribution Program was for internal use only. They still put ads out in the wild to recruit regular co…

I agree that Google & FB violated the terms of the agreement they had with Apple.

I think an interesting question is: What is Apple's best move from here?

I would suggest that Apple should leave Google/ FB blocked for ~1-2 weeks, to remind them who's boss on the iOS platform. However, I would argue it'd be smart for them to switch them back on after that- there's a chance that this looks anticompetitive to regulators at some point, which isn't something Apple wants to mess around with.