Apple and Google Face Growing Revolt Over App Store ‘Tax’ • Hacker News Board

Re: Apple and Google Face Growing Revolt Over App Store ‘Tax’

#281

Post by felipelemos » Wed, Aug 22, 2018, 11:52 PM UTC

baby wrote: post #247

michaelchisari wrote: post #231

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Los Angeles has serious grade inflation across the board wrt social ratings. Their yelp reviews are completely unreliable, everything is 4 or 5 stars. I'm used to Chicago where even a great restaurant can have 3 stars because everyone is so picky, and the 4 or 5 stars are reserved for the truly extraordinary.

Good chinese restaurants in London (like my old place) end up having less than 4 stars because of service. I find that raging since the food is the only thing that should matter.

If the food is the only thing that should matter everyone should be ordering for delivery. The service counts so much as the food in my opinion.

Re: Apple and Google Face Growing Revolt Over App Store ‘Tax’

#282

Post by scentedmeat » Wed, Aug 22, 2018, 11:52 PM UTC

cgriswald wrote: post #45

ObsoleteNerd wrote: post #10

Doesn't Valve take 30% from games on Steam? But they're complaining Apple taking 30% is too much? I also don't really think the Apple/Google fee is that unreasonable. Considering the resources, tools, marketplaces, tutorials, payment processing, all the other All dev stuff they provide in general. Yes if your app goes big, they make a lot of money. But for every big app there's something like 9 that fail completely (…

Steam does not sell me a locked down hardware platform preventing me from buying the software directly from the publisher. Nor does Steam force me to buy DLC through Steam, I am free to buy the DLC directly from the publisher. Steam gets a cut of what I buy from Steam and I am not locked into buying from Steam in order to make my PC useful. Apple sells me a locked down hardware platform that requires me to go through…

> Apple adds no value there

I like having all my subscriptions in the same place so I can easily see what I'm paying and cancel.

Re: Apple and Google Face Growing Revolt Over App Store ‘Tax’

#283

Post by mrep » Wed, Aug 22, 2018, 11:53 PM UTC

fenwick67 wrote: post #207

colechristensen wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Using a monopoly to squeeze excessive fees that happen to be exactly the same as the fees for a competitive market? There seems to be a logic breakdown there.

The critical differences here is that computers don't come with Steam games pre-installed with the Steam Store being the only way to install new ones Whereas most Android phones come with Google apps and the Play Store as the only ways to get new apps.

You can install new apps onto android from other stores like amazon or download straight from the web. Fortnite just did the latter by avoiding the play store and selling their app direct from their website.

For IOS though, fortnite launched it in the IOS store because there is no real practical way to get users to install their app outside of Apples app store.

Re: Apple and Google Face Growing Revolt Over App Store ‘Tax’

#284

Post by spookthesunset » Wed, Aug 22, 2018, 11:54 PM UTC

gg3 wrote: post #212

cptaj wrote: post #135

And they should. We are fast approaching a world where all markets are walled-in by a few international companies. I've had clients of mine go under because Amazon decided to close their accounts and they depend on the platform to sell their wares. Imagine how hard it is to sell stuff online if you're barred from ebay and amazon... and there is no legal recourse to appeal those bans. Same goes for app stores, what ha…

Can we discuss alternative to these big platforms? This is the only long term solution to the problem. Decentralization is need of the hour. Why isn't etherium based solutions gaining traction even after repeated backlash by these big platforms on multiple fronts.

> Why isn't etherium based solutions gaining traction even after repeated backlash by these big platforms on multiple fronts.

Because the problems that need to be solved aren't technical ones and won't be solved with technology. They are meatspace-based cultural, economic and social problems.

Re: Apple and Google Face Growing Revolt Over App Store ‘Tax’

#285

Post by sleepychu » Wed, Aug 22, 2018, 11:57 PM UTC

opportune wrote: post #216

walterbell wrote: post #205

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Some Uber drivers also use the Lyft app. Would they use a “DriveTogether” app for labor organizing? Is digital labor organizing more or less work than old-school organizing of workers in factories across a large geographic region? Edit: looks like this is now legally permitted, https://tcf.org/content/report/virtual-labor-organizing/ ”Due to a little-known, but far-reaching change made by the NLRB last year, virtual…

One major barrier is that you don’t have to meet any of your coworkers unless you explicitly seek them out, and your employer certainly isn’t going to help you. So yes I would say that labor organizing across a gig platform is considerably harder than for factories across geographic regions. The social fabric is a lot harder to construct

Can anyone who drives for Uber/Lyft/Grab chime in here? Do you know your peers?

Re: Apple and Google Face Growing Revolt Over App Store ‘Tax’

#286

Post by Galaxeblaffer » Wed, Aug 22, 2018, 11:59 PM UTC

baby wrote: post #247

michaelchisari wrote: post #231

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Los Angeles has serious grade inflation across the board wrt social ratings. Their yelp reviews are completely unreliable, everything is 4 or 5 stars. I'm used to Chicago where even a great restaurant can have 3 stars because everyone is so picky, and the 4 or 5 stars are reserved for the truly extraordinary.

Good chinese restaurants in London (like my old place) end up having less than 4 stars because of service. I find that raging since the food is the only thing that should matter.

I just had this discussion with my SO while traveling n Japan. Here google maps give a really good indication, but you really really have to check out restaurants with under 4 stars. We found several gems that had under 4 stars because these places where just really busy. From reading the reviews these places the bad reviews where all from really condescending assholes that would even sometimes claim that the waiters were racist. These people giving 1 star because they couldn't get a table or some other shit not connected to the food whatsoever. Other times we would go to places where the food where mediocre but service and facilities where superb and thus having 4 star + ratings. I don't mind waiting, and i don't mind sitting in cigarette smoke to get an authentic quality meal.

I really wish that google maps, yelp etc. would have 2 or 3 categories being

Food, Service and Facilities

5 stars are just too simple, i feel the same way about Netflix thumbs up and thumbs down. Are we really so fucking simple minded that we can't handle nuanced ratings ?

Re: Apple and Google Face Growing Revolt Over App Store ‘Tax’

#287

Post by mrep » Thu, Aug 23, 2018, 12:05 AM UTC

AnthonyMouse wrote: post #133

DmenshunlAnlsis wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Right, and WalMart has a “monopoly” on WalMarts, but that’s not actually a monopoly. If they had a monopoly on supermarket, that would be a legal issue. Apps is the space for competition, and Apple doesn’t have a monopoly on apps, or phones. In fact you can almost always get the same apps on multiple platforms. People just want something they can’t have, so they play word games to make themselves sound righteous rath…

> Right, and WalMart has a “monopoly” on WalMarts, but that’s not actually a monopoly. If they had a monopoly on supermarket, that would be a legal issue. Which is likewise why Apple doesn't have a monopoly on phones . > Apps is the space for competition, and Apple doesn’t have a monopoly on apps, or phones. In fact you can almost always get the same apps on multiple platforms. The market isn't the app market itself,…

This is why I think we need a new way of identifying market abuse because you can make anyone a/not a monopoly based on what definition you use.

IOS device software distribution -> apple has a monopoly

High end phones -> apple probably has a monopoly

Total revenue of phones sold -> apple probably has a monopoly

Number of phones (in use?) by OS -> android has a monopoly

Number of computers by OS -> nobody has a monopoly http://gs.statcounter.com/os-market-share

Re: Apple and Google Face Growing Revolt Over App Store ‘Tax’

#288

Post by voltagex_ » Thu, Aug 23, 2018, 12:05 AM UTC

dkonofalski wrote: post #240

gameswithgo wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Anything is fair, but I don't like things that only allow app stores as a first class way to get software on my machine. I have voted with my wallet. But it is getting harder to do so, soon only linux will be left.

That's fine but you're not really the intended market for the App Stores. App Stores are for the people that click "Yes" to everything and end up with Internet Explorer as a strip of their screen because they have 42 toolbars installed. Those people undoubtedly like app stores precisely for being the only way to get software on their machines.

I dunno - I much prefer the Microsoft app store on Windows for simple applications that I don't need to customise much. It's quicker than finding the right exe and keeping it up to date myself.

Re: Apple and Google Face Growing Revolt Over App Store ‘Tax’

#289

Post by [deleted] » Thu, Aug 23, 2018, 12:06 AM UTC

cptaj wrote: post #135

And they should. We are fast approaching a world where all markets are walled-in by a few international companies. I've had clients of mine go under because Amazon decided to close their accounts and they depend on the platform to sell their wares. Imagine how hard it is to sell stuff online if you're barred from ebay and amazon... and there is no legal recourse to appeal those bans. Same goes for app stores, what ha…

[deleted]

Re: Apple and Google Face Growing Revolt Over App Store ‘Tax’

#290

Post by TheOtherHobbes » Thu, Aug 23, 2018, 12:06 AM UTC

drb91 wrote: post #262

consto wrote: post #256

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe people are over critical but the service and experience of a meal is not to be ignored. I'm sure you would agree that if they literally threw the food at you it wouldn't deserve a rating regardless of the food.

Rating the food, or rating the service? Rating them together is nonsensical.

Some Amazon 1 star reviews: "great product, delayed by the post."

Ratings generally have become nonsensical. Between paid reviews, influencer reviews, bot-generated reviews, one-dimensional reviews that confuse multi-dimensional experiences, friends-and-family reviews, bucket reviews where you can't tell which product of a range is being reviewed (Amazon...), and hostile fake reviews, reviews have become all-but useless.

FWIW I had to pick a removals company recently, and I crossed one company off my shortlist when I found they used a suspect ratings company for their review listings. It's possible they were fine, but any company that pays to hide or remove bad reviews may easily not be.

I'm not sure if it's even possible to create a reliable independent review system. It might seems like a trivial problem, but given all the issues it's actually incredibly hard to get it right.