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Elon Musk emails employees about 'extensive and damaging sabotage' by employee

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Re: Elon Musk emails employees about 'extensive and damaging sabotage' by employee

#281

Post by mmjaa »

GreenPlastic wrote: post #184
cwyers wrote: post #177

> In 2007, a comprehensive study of markets around the world found that ones where short selling was legal and common were more efficient than ones where it was not. And a 2012 study concluded simply, “Stock prices are more accurate when short sellers are more active.” https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2015/03/23/in-praise-of-s... Short selling is a _good thing_. Blaming the short sellers is the practices of compani…

Agreed. In many cases, short sellers do a better job of identifying, researching, and flagging illegal behavior than government agencies charged with enforcing the rules.

Its also true of long investors: they also do a better job of identifying, researching and flagging top-performing companies than government agencies charged with the task.

The key thing is, motivation. Both long and short investors have motivations to cull the herd.

Re: Elon Musk emails employees about 'extensive and damaging sabotage' by employee

#282

Post by wedn3sday »

woodandsteel wrote: post #254

There's something really sad about all the people who are claiming that Musk has developed deep psychological problems in recent months. Do they really think these claims are going to stop people from buying his cars, or stop big companies from hiring SpaceX to launch their satellites into orbit? Or that it will cause the megafactory to be a total failure? I think what we are seeing here is speculators who have bet d…

I think TSLA is a great company that makes great products, but I also think their stock price is over valued right now. It would be a miracle if they hit the 5k cars/week target (I hope they do).

Re: Elon Musk emails employees about 'extensive and damaging sabotage' by employee

#283

Post by kbenson »

mmjaa wrote: post #274
dnomad wrote: post #217

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Of course none of this ever happened. Musk has repeatedly accepted responsibility for many of the problems at Tesla around excessive automation. But try to understand the sort of psychology at work when somebody projects a fantasy onto a figure like Musk. In this thread alone we have people attributing quotes to Musk that he never said ("unfair", "witch hunt") and others insisting Musk is paranoid in response to find…

True that. Plus, there is a great deal of jealousy involved in Musk criticism these days. He has pushed things far further than a lot of anyone in this particular crowd ever will, and there is no indication that the Musk event horizon has any end. So yeah, this particular crowd here on HN has the potential to let jealousy override rationality, and the more banal human emotions come to play instead. Personally, I thin…

I suspect that if we were living and had easy access to information about any number of people from the past that had a large influence on history, we would find the opinion of the time much less one sides than it becomes after they are gone and their legacy (whether good or bad) has been largely decided by the culture.

There's a whole literature category devoted to taking the caricatures of historical people and expanding them into much more complex and realistic depictions of the people in question. Frankly I think it's amazing that so many people can't imagine a complex person with competing goals and motivations when considering public personas, when this is true of literally everyone alive.

Re: Elon Musk emails employees about 'extensive and damaging sabotage' by employee

#284

Post by mmjaa »

FortNightLord wrote: post #264
woodandsteel wrote: post #254

There's something really sad about all the people who are claiming that Musk has developed deep psychological problems in recent months. Do they really think these claims are going to stop people from buying his cars, or stop big companies from hiring SpaceX to launch their satellites into orbit? Or that it will cause the megafactory to be a total failure? I think what we are seeing here is speculators who have bet d…

You hit it on the head. It's either just not real, Musk is actually developing some issues, or people have learned to use bots (duh) to persuade public opinion (where have we heard this before??)

I think the real story here is what does a person do when they've accomplished so much, that the jealousy levels around them are so damn high?

I mean, I read this thread to gain some insight into what other technology/innovation people do when it comes to dealing with subterfuge and sabotage - and so far, there's nothing in this thread besides jealousy, vitriol and intolerance.

Its very telling when a technologically-inclined in-group starts to eat its heroes. We truly are cannibalistic, as a species, at heart.

Jealousy/envy, distrust, degradation: these seem to be far more powerful forces than sabotage and subterfuge. I wonder if there is any concerted effort to foment such? Sure seems like it.

Re: Elon Musk emails employees about 'extensive and damaging sabotage' by employee

#285

Post by loggedinmyphone »

TaylorAlexander wrote: post #246
workthrowawayn wrote: post #172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

United Fruit Company is the origin of the phrase "Banana Republic" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Banana_republic

It’s so upsetting to me that there’s a clothing store with that name. It seems like it’s mocking the people whose countries have been overthrown for someone’s profit. This from a store that sells clothes made by people who could never afford them.

How do you feel about Disneyland making a ride out of Pirates of the Caribbean?

Re: Elon Musk emails employees about 'extensive and damaging sabotage' by employee

#286

Post by [deleted] »

statictype wrote: post #243
wahern wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's a $10+ billion short position against TSLA, constituting over 25% of outstanding shares. Anyone working at Tesla should be paranoid. Remember Enron? People invested deeply in something do criminally reprehensible things. Much more importantly, Musk made very concrete allegations, the truth of which should come to light in short order. I remember the insinuation SpaceX made during the 2016 incident, which was…

>There's a $10+ billion short position against TSLA, constituting over 25% of outstanding shares. Where do you get these stats? Is there some place where we can see how many people are shorting different stocks?

[deleted]

Re: Elon Musk emails employees about 'extensive and damaging sabotage' by employee

#287

Post by mmjaa »

kitsunesoba wrote: post #107
jcranmer wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For me, personally, I strongly dislike the Hyperloop and Loop proposals. I can provide lots of details about why these systems suck as public transit options (and I've done so in the past several times), but there has tended to be an annoying cohort that rejects any and all criticism, no matter how reasoned it is. While I don't particularly pay attention to Tesla and Space X, I've noticed that there is similarly a ve…

Personally speaking I’ve been a fan of Musk’s endeavors simply because they tend to actually move where other options creep along painstakingly slowly, get stalled, or are canned entirely. Focusing on the loop stuff specifically, even if it’s not the optimal transport solution it’s better than the alternative “better” solution that will be in a state of decay by the time it’s finished or never see the light of day at…

I'm not at all interested in the Musk cult factor, but I think that all the critics are far too easily blinded by their own position and fail to see the incredible results that have already been attained, in spite of incredible odds against.

Musk may tweak peoples jealousy buttons - and I truly think that jealousy of him personally is behind a lot of the criticism - but on the other hand, there is so much progress behind him that its almost ridiculous to hear the critics pulling hard on whatever loose strings they can find.

I mean, the criticism may be warranted - but I think a great deal of respect and honest attribution is warranted, too. The statistics as to what has been accomplished as a result of Musks' crazy ideals demonstrate that, sometimes it seems, to push the human species forward you have to be a little crazy, outside the norms of the collective. ITT, people who haven't yet recognised this fact ..

Re: Elon Musk emails employees about 'extensive and damaging sabotage' by employee

#288

Post by Rebelgecko »

brightball wrote: post #118
neotek wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The fact Musk still has any credibility at all given his penchant for making wild claims that inevitably fall flat is baffling to me. How many more spurious predictions and imaginary milestones does he need to pump out before people recognise him for the huckster monorail salesman that he is?

You did see him launch his car into space, right?

Yes, although it turns out their stream was using fake footage for one of the boosters

Re: Elon Musk emails employees about 'extensive and damaging sabotage' by employee

#289

Post by Ar-Curunir »

ubernostrum wrote: post #242
TimTheTinker wrote: post #182

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wow, I hadn’t heard of that - pretty horrible stuff. Thanks for the info.

I'm not trying to be mean here, but: you never wondered why so many people in Iran hated the US enough to call it the "Great Satan"? I know we've had a generation or so of leaders over here who just prattle on about "they hate us for our freedom", but I'm kind of boggled by the idea that people don't get curious and wonder what really set off the level of virulent hatred of the US (and European powers) that existed a…

There is an astounding level of ignorance about Western meddling in foreign countries among Westerners; for instance, I don't think many Americans know of CIA-backed coups in socialist-leaning countries.

Re: Elon Musk emails employees about 'extensive and damaging sabotage' by employee

#290

Post by diffeomorphism »

ucaetano wrote: post #34

We need to figure out if he was acting alone or with others at Tesla and if he was working with any outside organizations. As you know, there are a long list of organizations that want Tesla to die. These include Wall Street short-sellers, who have already lost billions of dollars and stand to lose a lot more. Then there are the oil & gas companies, the wealthiest industry in the world — they don't love the idea of T…

How can it be paranoia if you have a clear, documented case of sabotage?
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