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I Got Catfished by a Candidate

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Re: I Got Catfished by a Candidate

#281

Post by ThrustVectoring »

philwelch wrote: post #240
ironjunkie wrote: post #179

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think what you are really saying is that you will fire people for lies bigger than a specific "threshold", which I understand and agree with. What I'm saying is that in the social work environment everyone lies to some level and it is actually widely accepted so. I googled exactly for 5 seconds and found this article to give you a couple examples: https://www.telegraph.co.uk/men/thinking-man/11652018/10-que...

I find that people who work really hard to convince people that "everyone lies" are usually the biggest liars. So my advice: Stop lying, and stop trying to normalize lying. To address the examples in the link given: 1. "Where do you see yourself in five years’ time?". There are honest ways of answering this question, or at least not-dishonest answers, that don't entail volunteering information that won't help you. 2.…

You're completely ignoring misleading people through telling factually correct statements. If you ignore the intent of what you want people to believe, you're going to wind up being less honest than people who focus on that but don't need to have every tiny detail be exactly true.

Re: I Got Catfished by a Candidate

#282

Post by fenwick67 »

drdeadringer wrote: post #219
justherefortart wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Everyone lies, because the interviewing process itself is a fucking joke, ESPECIALLY in the Bay Area. If the person can answer all my questions and they have a good attitude, I honestly don't give a shit what got them to that point. If someone doesn't work out, you can fire them. Yes it's "exhausting", maybe if it's so difficult to manage or run a business you should find a different role for yourself. I really enjoy…

> Everyone lies I am clueless about certain things and perhaps this is one of them... but really? Outright lies of pure red-handed snake-oil fiction? Surely there must be a line between the "HR speak" most must sing along to and reality that does not qualify as pure uncut straight-up lies. Help me understand what you mean.

For literal people like myself the line between a lie such as "my biggest flaw is I work too hard" or "I have never used illegal drugs" and a lie like "I worked at Acme Corp" can seem thin.

Re: I Got Catfished by a Candidate

#283

Post by dvtrn »

desdiv wrote: post #221
stordoff wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The fact that they are interviewing with a particular company is private information; you have no right to make that public. Also of note is that the article claims that "if I didn’t do my backdoor checks I would have never uncovered the Catfish", but then later states the "fake manager [was] one out of the two people that I knew from Acme Corp". Had she waited 'til that point, she would have discovered the lie witho…

It's easy to spot this Catfish even without any personal connections at Acme Corp. When Catfish provides Jim @ Acme Corp as a reference, but with a non-Acme Corp address for Jim, then that's a huge red flag. You either: 1. Reply with "Please provide Jim's Acme Corp work email address." Catfish won't be able to. The end. 2. Call Acme Corp front desk and get Jim's real phone number. Call Jim. 3. Find Jim's real email o…

Is it still a huge red flag if Jim left the company when you did because you were both hit by layoffs?

Re: I Got Catfished by a Candidate

#284

Post by imron »

ironjunkie wrote: post #138
AmericanChopper wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>someone who apparently otherwise would have been a great candidate Dishonesty is an intolerable trait. This person clearly wasn't a great candidate. Lying at work is just about the only thing I'll always fire somebody for.

Everyone is lying at work to some degree. That's what office politics is all about, even though it is not straight lying. How many times did my managers not "lie" to me by telling me that it is impossible for the company to give a raise or anything as a policy right now, while my colleague gets one one week later (sharing salary information is beautiful!)

> Everyone is lying at work to some degree.

Maybe, but rarely to the degree that this guy did.

Re: I Got Catfished by a Candidate

#285

Post by AmericanChopper »

lovich wrote: post #274
AmericanChopper wrote: post #195

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I actually have been. I informed people as soon as I could, and sent them home immediately without telling a single lie. To some extent this comment also tries to paint withholding information that people aren’t entitled to as lying. Which are absolutely not the same thing. Also, do you know what happens to companies that have mass layoffs cloaked in dishonesty? They destroy their own reputations. An outcome that ent…

"as soon as I could". That's not "as soon as I knew". My point is that lieing isn't a binary option. If people told literally no lies our society would fall apart. White lies are social lubricant to get through the day. This matters in the discussion because employers have made their job positings be full of lies 99% of time. When everyone can expect that a random interaction is going to be mostly lieing then it's mo…

Lying is NOT withholding information that people aren’t entitled to. You’re trying to win an argument by changing what the words mean. If somebody confides in me with a secret, am I a liar if I don’t immediately rush off and tell it to all concerned parties? No, I’m not. You’re trying to confuse honesty with openness, and specifically in this case, as an obligation to disclose privileged information.

Re: I Got Catfished by a Candidate

#286

Post by alanpca »

jmvoodoo wrote: post #198
mrbill wrote: post #87

You just never know who might turn up from your past... 1999: I was a sysadmin at an ISP in Austin. One day we had a tour come through, people looking to see if they wanted to colo in our datacenter. In walks in the former CEO and most of the technical staff from the Oklahoma City-based ISP I'd started my career at and left in '96. We laughed, shook hands.. and they headhunted me away a couple months later with a 200…

Hey mr_bill. Long time no talk. -indy :)

uhh, hey guys. this is weird.

Re: I Got Catfished by a Candidate

#287

Post by yborg »

njharman wrote: post #275

> He impressed each interviewer with his knowledge and passion for the brand, his sales acumen, outbound hunter mentality, and overall presence. > Our Catfish never faltered, kept a smile on his face the entire time, and did his homework. We even talked about sales operations, discussed the pros and cons of MEDDIC, and talked about Salesforce workflows. I mean, this guy was pretty good. Sounds like they were an excel…

A great candidate that would place a large knife into you and your company's back at the first opportunity.

This guy's name should have been in the article to save the rest of the industry a little bit of time ... and the guy would probably get some job offers from the people who read this and thought "excellent candidate!". The hiring company should also then publicize this excellent hire so the industry can see what firms out there believe "Lying = Sales".

Re: I Got Catfished by a Candidate

#288

Post by paul7986 »

I’m so happy that I’m older and do not work in a place filled with young or insecure people all worried about making themselves look best vs. working together/pulling in each other’s strengths and getting the job done awesomely. I could never work at Google or places where you exhaust yourself physically and emotionally to shine brighter then the next. Barf!!!

This manager’s hiring post reads to me like a company filled with brogrammers.

Re: I Got Catfished by a Candidate

#289

Post by retr0h »

scottyelich wrote: post #169
mrbill wrote: post #87

You just never know who might turn up from your past... 1999: I was a sysadmin at an ISP in Austin. One day we had a tour come through, people looking to see if they wanted to colo in our datacenter. In walks in the former CEO and most of the technical staff from the Oklahoma City-based ISP I'd started my career at and left in '96. We laughed, shook hands.. and they headhunted me away a couple months later with a 200…

http://www.oxide.org/unix/

Wow, haven't been on efnet in forever. Ever know a guy named chris at unix.org, was in #unix.

Re: I Got Catfished by a Candidate

#290

Post by lovich »

AmericanChopper wrote: post #285
lovich wrote: post #274

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"as soon as I could". That's not "as soon as I knew". My point is that lieing isn't a binary option. If people told literally no lies our society would fall apart. White lies are social lubricant to get through the day. This matters in the discussion because employers have made their job positings be full of lies 99% of time. When everyone can expect that a random interaction is going to be mostly lieing then it's mo…

Lying is NOT withholding information that people aren’t entitled to. You’re trying to win an argument by changing what the words mean. If somebody confides in me with a secret, am I a liar if I don’t immediately rush off and tell it to all concerned parties? No, I’m not. You’re trying to confuse honesty with openness, and specifically in this case, as an obligation to disclose privileged information.

I think your definition of lieing allows for an unlimited amount of misdirection based on a literal interpretation of lieing.

If you are a manager, you heard the CEO say they are going to lay off the bottom 20% of the engineers next month, you know you rated employee A as your worst employee during evaluations, and you then assign Employee A to a new project that's estimated to be 8 months of work, you have not lied by your definition because your CEO didn't say explicitly that they were firing employee A.

If you were a manager and a bank called to confirm an employee worked there so that they could be approved for a home loan, which you know they check to make sure that the employee has a salary that will pay the loan for the near future, you are going to fire the employee next week, and you just tell the bank, "yes he is employeed here" you have not lied by your definition because they didn't explicitly ask if the employee was going to be employed for the duration of that loan.

If you put out a job posting for a set of skills + salary that you know no one will ever take, and then apply for an h1b slot because you couldn't get any candidates, you haven't lied by your definition.

You've made the point that I am trying to win an argument by changing the definition of what words mean, but from my view point that is what you are doing. Human communication is not run through a compiler. There are explicit definitions, implicit definitions, connotations, and even social expectations that all add meaning to our communications, and by saying that you never lied because you are following the exact definition of the words you are being disingenuous

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