Canada facing ‘brain drain’ as tech talent leaves for Silicon Valley • Hacker News Board

Re: Canada facing ‘brain drain’ as tech talent leaves for Silicon Valley

#281

Post by jedberg » Fri, May 04, 2018, 8:52 PM UTC

c2h5oh wrote: post #254

Average house in Toronto or Vancouver costs about the same as in the valley. Senior devs rarely make more then 100-110k USD. No wonder people, myself included, at least consider moving.

> Average house in Toronto or Vancouver costs about the same as in the valley.

I don't think that's accurate. I was just in Vancouver last week and took a peek at the real estate listings. I could sell my 1734 sq ft house here in the Bay Area, get one twice as big in Vancouver, and still have quite a lot left over.

Re: Canada facing ‘brain drain’ as tech talent leaves for Silicon Valley

#282

Post by systemBuilder » Fri, May 04, 2018, 8:53 PM UTC

hluska wrote: post #220

ryanobjc wrote: post #187

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not so much that people are paid better in the bay area, but the jobs are plentiful, more interesting, more opportunities. Endless opportunities in fact. Bay area best case scenario is top of the world. Founder of a world-wide renowned company. Best case scenario for being in waterloo: Founder of a huge telcom handset manufacturer until shifting markets cause massive failure written about in economics textbooks…

> Best case scenario for being in waterloo: Founder of a huge telcom handset manufacturer until shifting markets cause massive failure written about in economics textbooks as "what not to do" I'm sorry, but this is absolutely not true. Not only did the company you're talking about pay out incredibly well for its founders, but Waterloo is dramatically different today.

Are you talking about Nortel, Blackberry, QNX, or some other failed lake Ontario company? I'm afraid the original poster was spot-on, you just need to realize the long history of Canadian tech self-destructing ...

Re: Canada facing ‘brain drain’ as tech talent leaves for Silicon Valley

#283

Post by Kluny » Fri, May 04, 2018, 8:54 PM UTC

seanmcdirmid wrote: post #218

Kluny wrote: post #56

Canadian here. I get $65,000 USD from my remote American job. That's low enough that people on this forum snicker at me, and high enough that companies in the "tech town" that I live in physically wince when I tell them my salary expectation. I'd rather work locally, but what can I do?

How much is the rent where you live? I hope it is within expectation of your salary. Vancouver, Toronto, Montreal, have low salaries and high rents, which makes working there really hard.

A one bedroom goes for $1300, but the problem is finding one. The vacancy rate is below .05% right now.

Re: Canada facing ‘brain drain’ as tech talent leaves for Silicon Valley

#284

Post by pm90 » Fri, May 04, 2018, 8:56 PM UTC

trhway wrote: post #249

jseliger wrote: post #239

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If only there were some way to put more houses on a given plot of land, perhaps by stacking one on top of another, we could somehow break this dynamic. http://www.slate.com/blogs/moneybox/2013/04/11/san_francisco...

i'm yet to see a high-rise development resulting in cheaper housing, at least in US. No that i'm against it - i like it, when it is done right, for different reasons though. The housing prices are rising across the globe - one has to put somewhere all this money sloshing around. So, even to just stabilize the prices, one has to build faster than the money are printed - like Alice in Wonderland where you have to run f…

> i'm yet to see a high-rise development resulting in cheaper housing, at least in US. No that i'm against it - i like it, when it is done right, for different reasons though.

It definitely won't be one or 2 developments; there has to be a systematic increase in the housing stock. Which is why the latest California plan (which was shot down in committee) to increase the density around mass transit by default was so amazing.

SF is NYC in the making. I know SF folks don't want to change the character of the city but something has to give; its attracting way too many people and we still need affordable housing for middle class folks.

Re: Canada facing ‘brain drain’ as tech talent leaves for Silicon Valley

#285

Post by caiob » Fri, May 04, 2018, 8:56 PM UTC

wk_end wrote: post #175

ryanobjc wrote: post #155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The liberalness of Canada is overhyped. The reality is Canada is deeply conservative. It's possible to have universal health care and be conservative, that's only a oxymoron in the US. To quote this excellent article[1]: "the default setting of the Canadian male: a dull but stern dad, who, under a facade of apparent normalcy and common sense, conceals a reserve of barely contained hostility toward anyone who might ro…

Where in Canada did you live and gone to school? I live in the US now, and don't disagree that Americans as a people are more...well, I like the word 'ambitious'. But I think your characterization of Canada is overly harsh: in Toronto and Montreal I know (and love) misfits just as individual, wild, and free as anyone I met during my years in Brooklyn.

'Free' as in as long as you both have the same socially-acceptable opinion.

Re: Canada facing ‘brain drain’ as tech talent leaves for Silicon Valley

#286

Post by pm90 » Fri, May 04, 2018, 9:01 PM UTC

threatofrain wrote: post #168

ryanobjc wrote: post #155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The liberalness of Canada is overhyped. The reality is Canada is deeply conservative. It's possible to have universal health care and be conservative, that's only a oxymoron in the US. To quote this excellent article[1]: "the default setting of the Canadian male: a dull but stern dad, who, under a facade of apparent normalcy and common sense, conceals a reserve of barely contained hostility toward anyone who might ro…

A lot of Canada's GDP seems to come from mining, and some of it seems to come from places that could be disrupted by technology or ecological concerns, so I'm not surprised at resistance to disruption.

Hmmm that is an interesting observation. I wonder if and when more of the GDP comes from Services/Software, it will impact the culture of the country as well?

Re: Canada facing ‘brain drain’ as tech talent leaves for Silicon Valley

#287

Post by systemBuilder » Fri, May 04, 2018, 9:03 PM UTC

vonmoltke wrote: post #225

smokinn wrote: post #163

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is the very competitive salary over 300k USD? That's what's competitive in the Bay Area or Seattle for senior talent. While there are benefits to Canada as you mentioned, for a lot of people they don't make up a 50% pay cut.

> Is the very competitive salary over 300k USD? How many jobs are actually paying that? The salaries posted on the "Who Is Hiring?" threads don't corroborate that, nor does my experience in NYC (which is supposed to be on par with those areas).

Google has at least 1000 employees in the Bay area in the $300k+ income bracket. The entry-level job at Google pays like a staff engineer at a mortal company.

Re: Canada facing ‘brain drain’ as tech talent leaves for Silicon Valley

#288

Post by thinkingkong » Fri, May 04, 2018, 9:04 PM UTC

Artifical market capture. We used to be a cheaper alternative because of the dollar, now its a business model. But we havent come to terms with the fact that changing jobs is almost frictionless. Switch github and slack and youre mostly on your way.

I really wish canadian companies would pay more, but its like game theory. Why pay more when you dont “have to”?

Re: Canada facing ‘brain drain’ as tech talent leaves for Silicon Valley

#289

Post by vonmoltke » Fri, May 04, 2018, 9:05 PM UTC

pembrook wrote: post #270

badpun wrote: post #199

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A lot of the tech industry is about burning through investors' money in search of new profitable ideas. I'm guessing there's much less investor money in Canada.

"Burning through investors money in search of profitable ideas" has nothing to do with it. There's this huge misconception on HN about the size of the venture capital market. Start-ups are a miniscule portion of the tech economy by any measure of value. The reason engineers make so much money in the US is the public market giants like Facebook, Apple, Amazon, Netflix, Google, etc. The combined market cap of FAANG is…

FAANG can only hire so many engineers, the positions tend to be highly competitive, they pull them from all over the world, and the drop-off in compensation at the next level is pretty significant.

Re: Canada facing ‘brain drain’ as tech talent leaves for Silicon Valley

#290

Post by systemBuilder » Fri, May 04, 2018, 9:08 PM UTC

merinowool wrote: post #109

m-p-3 wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm wondering how that salary difference really is when comparing the cost of living of many Canadian cities vs Silicon Valley, the taxation rate and the social services provided (universal healthcare, etc).

Is Canadian healthcare any good? Where I live, you pay for this privilege quite a lot of tax at still you have to go privately, because the quality is just not worth your health. I really wish "universal healthcare" was scrapped, so I could afford better services privately.

Canada has good Healthcare up to the level of US medtech about 20 years ago. Anything invented in the last 20 years is not available through Canada Health Care. They will have an occasional crock of s* like one or two radiation machines for cancer for an entire province of 5 million people.