Martin Shkreli has been sentenced to seven years in prison • Hacker News Board

Re: Martin Shkreli has been sentenced to seven years in prison

#281

Post by draugadrotten » Fri, Mar 09, 2018, 9:57 PM UTC

harryh wrote: post #257

robrenaud wrote: post #252

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sick person: please moderately profitable pharma company, help me. moderately profitable pharma company: Sure, for $50 Sick person: please insanely profitable pharma company post shrekli, help me. insanely profitable pharma company post shrekli: Sure, for $5000

Exactly. Same thing. Both voluntary business transactions subject to the same rules as any other voluntarily exchange. No one is obligated to sell any particular good or service for any particular price. I know a lot of people see this differently but I don't think they have an ethical leg to stand on. When it gets down to it they have no particular rule for fair pricing other than "that feels too high to me."

> No one is obligated to sell any particular good or service for any particular price.

Well, nobody was forcing him to sell goods or services for any particular price. He set the price and now he has to face the consequences.

Re: Martin Shkreli has been sentenced to seven years in prison

#282

Post by meritt » Fri, Mar 09, 2018, 9:58 PM UTC

dayaz36 wrote: post #265

meritt wrote: post #251

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> the judge decided to come up with a HYPOTHETICAL loss The judge issued a 96-page opinion [1] that details his crimes and the sentencing guidelines. It was not an off-the-cuff decision as you're suggesting. > This seems beyond absurd and as far as I know has no precedence. Your lack of knowledge on a subject does not make it absurd. [1] https://martinshkrelilacksjudgment.files.wordpress.com/2018/...

I never suggested the judges decision was off the cuff, you just made that up. I simply stated that he is doing 7 years for a $10.4M hypothetical loss that never happened.

> hypothetical loss

There were massive losses. It was only after Shkreli's scheme was unraveled and he realized was likely going to prison for his crimes that he gave disgruntled investors Retrophin stock to make up for their losses.

Making things right after being caught committing a crime doesn't make the crime disappear.

Re: Martin Shkreli has been sentenced to seven years in prison

#283

Post by danso » Fri, Mar 09, 2018, 10:00 PM UTC

roymurdock wrote: post #258

danso wrote: post #230

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree he's very smart. But you argue that, besides being a boy genius, he is a very thoughtful and respectful guy -- yet he's too dumb and ignorant to recognize the consequences of extreme trolling? Even when he was warned repeatedly against such trolling, and that it was clear to everyone that such trolling would be absolutely a detriment to his own welfare? If we agree that he is very smart, how does being though…

He understands the justice/social system and its absurdity and decides to have a bit of fun subverting the system and stirring up drama, even if it has detrimental effects on his ongoing case, because he enjoys giving the middle finger to authority and the established order/system. He's respectful to the interviewers, but he seems to absolutely detest authority (especially authority which seems arbitrary or archaic).

What absurdity about the justice system did he perceive (that the status quo doesn't)? And if he knew what he was doing, and properly ascertained its detrimental effects, then why did he reportedly weep and plead for mercy when the sentence was handed down?

To put this another way, if Shkreli received what he thought he would get -- which is 0 days in prison (when considering time served up to now) -- then how is that less a mockery of the justice system than the other cases people complain about, when smart, clean-cut, cultured white-collar executives don't get what they purportedly deserve? I bet if Enron's Jeffrey Skilling (who received an initial sentence of 24+ years) had a YouTube channel, he too would come off as a relatable intelligent and clever human, which is what you'd expect of someone who worked his way up to CEO.

Re: Martin Shkreli has been sentenced to seven years in prison

#284

Post by AFNobody » Fri, Mar 09, 2018, 10:04 PM UTC

presidentender wrote: post #277

s73v3r_ wrote: post #175

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The SEC, DOJ, et al also have limited amounts of resources. They just can't go after everyone.

The fact that they can't go after everyone doesn't mean that they should punish Shkreli extra hard for what amounts to being a jerk.

It does actually.

If you waste their time by trolling them and drawing excessive attention, it consumes their resources responding to comments from the media. Instead of y'know, performing their investigatory/judicial functions.

Re: Martin Shkreli has been sentenced to seven years in prison

#285

Post by gameswithgo » Fri, Mar 09, 2018, 10:11 PM UTC

birken wrote: post #149

bhouston wrote: post #5

He was so obnoxious that I guess it is easy to be happy about that, but he was so small time in the grand scheme of things. But nearly no bankers responsible for the 2008 financial crisis ever went to jail: https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2015/09/how-wal...

Like it or hate it, this is what the SEC does. You think Martha Stewart deserved jail time for making 50k in an insider trading scheme she didn't really care about? The SEC finds very public cases and then brings the hammer down in order to act a deterrent. Martin Shkreli broke the law, something he didn't have to do. It isn't like it was mob justice and some hugely biased jury convicted him of all the crimes he was…

> I'm not convinced it is a huge indictment of our society

The indictment of our society is that hundreds of millionaires can enrich themselves further via dishonest and illegal means, wreck world economies, and suffer no consequences, while a regular joe can be chocked to death for selling cigarettes on the street (disruptive!)

This isn't an impossible problem to fix. We just start voting for politicians willing to execute white collar criminals.

Re: Martin Shkreli has been sentenced to seven years in prison

#286

Post by jimjimjim » Fri, Mar 09, 2018, 10:15 PM UTC

jimjimjim wrote: post #40

Role models. He was a rock star at being an asshole. This encourages others who were maybe unsure of their assholeness to feel free to be more assholish. The world need more good role models and less bad ones.

I'm doubling down on my comment. There is a growing trend in not caring if you are hated, and reveling in the attention. That only works while you are powerful. If you fall you need friends and goodwill.

The world needs to stop rewarding purposefully angering people just for attention.

Re: Martin Shkreli has been sentenced to seven years in prison

#287

Post by AnabeeKnox » Fri, Mar 09, 2018, 10:15 PM UTC

gameswithgo wrote: post #285

birken wrote: post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Like it or hate it, this is what the SEC does. You think Martha Stewart deserved jail time for making 50k in an insider trading scheme she didn't really care about? The SEC finds very public cases and then brings the hammer down in order to act a deterrent. Martin Shkreli broke the law, something he didn't have to do. It isn't like it was mob justice and some hugely biased jury convicted him of all the crimes he was…

> I'm not convinced it is a huge indictment of our society The indictment of our society is that hundreds of millionaires can enrich themselves further via dishonest and illegal means, wreck world economies, and suffer no consequences, while a regular joe can be chocked to death for selling cigarettes on the street (disruptive!) This isn't an impossible problem to fix. We just start voting for politicians willing to…

you sound a bit mental tbh

Re: Martin Shkreli has been sentenced to seven years in prison

#288

Post by roymurdock » Fri, Mar 09, 2018, 10:16 PM UTC

danso wrote: post #283

roymurdock wrote: post #258

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He understands the justice/social system and its absurdity and decides to have a bit of fun subverting the system and stirring up drama, even if it has detrimental effects on his ongoing case, because he enjoys giving the middle finger to authority and the established order/system. He's respectful to the interviewers, but he seems to absolutely detest authority (especially authority which seems arbitrary or archaic).

What absurdity about the justice system did he perceive (that the status quo doesn't)? And if he knew what he was doing, and properly ascertained its detrimental effects, then why did he reportedly weep and plead for mercy when the sentence was handed down? To put this another way, if Shkreli received what he thought he would get -- which is 0 days in prison (when considering time served up to now) -- then how is tha…

I don't have the answers you're looking for, just sharing my view of his character/motivations after watching a 30 minute interview with the guy on his upbringing, rap, and the pharma industry.

I'd wager Enron's CEO would come off as an actor or a sociopath reading press releases or prepared scripts for money, whereas Shkreli still exhibits genuine human emotions, quirks (genuinely passionate about rap/hip hop because it got him through tough times growing up), compassion (gave drugs away for free to those who couldn't afford, taught a youtube series on chemsitry/pharma for younger generation of investors), etc. It seems like it's not all about money for Shkreli, he wants to impact the culture and give back in unselfish ways.

I put myself in his shoes, and I feel bad for the guy having 7 years of his life taken from him, especially when many other white collar crimes of seemingly greater magnitude go unpunished

Re: Martin Shkreli has been sentenced to seven years in prison

#289

Post by magicalist » Fri, Mar 09, 2018, 10:16 PM UTC

saas_sam wrote: post #141

teemwerk wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>he actually seemed like a nice person. I also enjoyed his trollish sense of humor. I see where you're coming from and don't want to get pedantic, but isn't as trollish sense of humor by definition at least a little mean-spirited?

The funniest comedy routines I have ever seen by the most prominent comedians are almost always disparaging of a person, group, or idea held dear by many people. Simmer on that and ask yourself if mean-spiritedness really matters in this context.

> seemed like a nice person

> ask yourself if mean-spiritedness really matters in this context

Yes?

Re: Martin Shkreli has been sentenced to seven years in prison

#290

Post by RockyMcNuts » Fri, Mar 09, 2018, 10:19 PM UTC

rayiner wrote: post #132

otalp wrote: post #92

It does say something depressing about our laws that he got sent to prison for the thing where he lied to rich people while still making them money rather than the thing where he extorted sick poor people...which is still fully legal even if the majority of society thinks it shouldn't.

Not it doesn’t. Our legal framework doesn’t oblige you to save someone’s life just because you have the means to do so. If it did, we’d all be in big trouble—for the cost of a fully loaded MacBook Pro, you could save someone from malaria in Africa. The fact that people think a particular unpopular thing shouldn’t be legal doesn’t change that. There are a lot of things people believe should be illegal that aren’t ille…

hmmh, sounds like you agree that it says something about laws, but that jacking up prices on drugs is something you don't think the law should prohibit.

well, everything that's undesirable shouldn't be illegal.

but the system isn't working very well if Shkreli's desire to make millions trumps someone's desire to live.

democracy and markets only work if people are decent. you don't have an efficient outcome if one guy has a monopoly, or if one guy has to buy or die.

and the purpose of property rights is a system that works and has good outcomes, if property rights as construed mean everyone dies or is immiserated, the nature of those rights is going to be renegotiated.