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Spain Runs Out of Workers with Almost 5M Unemployed

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Re: Spain Runs Out of Workers with Almost 5M Unemployed

#281

Post by yummyfajitas »

anjc wrote: post #234
yummyfajitas wrote: post #166

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's entertaining to see a comment simultaneously criticizing people for NOT hiring Euros, yet being willing to hire Indians. Draw your arbitrary tribal boundaries at the exact same place I do!

My "arbitrary boundary" is my country and consists of citizens of my country, whether they're indigenous or not. If you like seeing an underclass being manufactured in your country due to the profit maximisation of businesses then that's your problem. Spain has 50% unemployment for under 30's. This is a national disaster and will have effects that last generations, and companies that operate within the country should…

The underclass is already created due to the nationalism of citizens in your country (and mine). The only question is whether you see them or not.

I guess as long as desperate poverty is out of sight, it's also out of mind, right?

...companies that operate within the country should be mandated to address it.

I'll be sure not to operate within Spain. Why bother with that kind of a hassle when India, China and Singapore are open for business?

Re: Spain Runs Out of Workers with Almost 5M Unemployed

#282

Post by tluyben2 »

Qantourisc wrote: post #196
gordaco wrote: post #191

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Another spaniard here, and I can confirm that it absolutely is a problem of not wanting to pay appropriate wages. First, most software companies only offer crappy jobs that don't require specific skills. Most of the job postings are for standard developing positions in very common languages such as Java or Python. Considering how many people finish their degree or their FP ( Formación Profesional , courses of about t…

What is wrong with Java/Python? I don't know about Java, but Python is certainly a nice language to write in in my opinion. (However don't expect raw performance from Python.)

I find it hard to find it hard to find remote jobs in the EU for Python anyway. There are a lot of shops depending on it (Django for instance) in the northern countries but they basically want you to sit in an office there. For Java (PHP, ... ) jobs are far easier to get remotely.

Re: Spain Runs Out of Workers with Almost 5M Unemployed

#283

Post by tluyben2 »

triplesec wrote: post #224
reitanqild wrote: post #221

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For a while my former employer used a Spanish software consultancy for second level support on an open source solution; they were happy to work with us because we paid well [0] and didn't argue on every bill like their other (mostly south American I think) clients did. [0]: my boss told me literally to tell them: contract is fine, except for the hourly rate, I should tell them he would not accept to be associated wit…

Are you seriously saying you are using child labour?

Well you could become a mentor to them and pay them something so they don't have to go out and pick strawberries during the summer vacation.

Re: Spain Runs Out of Workers with Almost 5M Unemployed

#284

Post by MawNicker »

TheOtherHobbes wrote: post #275
hexagonc wrote: post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you can easily be a 10x developer, since 10x is relative. Especially in a world awash in bad developers. Just being familiar with the right algorithms and software approaches vis-a-vis your co-workers will do that. I've seen "enterprise" code that was doing tons of string key-value pair lookups using arrays. Just converting those to hashtables could very well speed up the app by 10+ times if the key-value loo…

10X technical developers are not that rare, because 10X really just means someone who is significantly more competent and experienced than average. 10X business value developers are incredibly rare. 10X managers are rarer still. You could probably fit all the world's 10X executives into a small lift without worrying about getting the doors closed.

That's a really nice hierarchy. I'd argue a 10x business value developer is a 10x technical developer AND a 10x product designer. Also that a 10x manager is a 10x business value developer AND a 10x leader/coordinator. The rarity compounds with the number of passions that must converge on a single individual. I'd bet you get a bit of a bump with a partial set. So a 10x technical developer may be able to operate as a 2x business value developer without significant product design skill. A 6x manager may get by with average technical ability.

I'm not sure how much the 10x thing generalizes. I still think it's a terrible name. I sort of gave an argument for why programming ability may have a bimodal distribution. With one half growing and eventually eating the other. I don't necessarily see that same phenomenon in leadership or product design. That is assuming you're looking at people who are actually trying and not just random technical developers.

Re: Spain Runs Out of Workers with Almost 5M Unemployed

#285

Post by eshvk »

fchollet wrote: post #126
gorkemyurt wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So you are saying NYC is much less expensive than Bay Area?

Yes. Specifically, rents are much higher in SF/SV than in NYC. SF has even higher rent than Manhattan. Most of NYC (not Manhattan or Williamsburg) can be quite reasonable.

I moved from SF to Manhattan and found the prices and the process of finding an apartment easier. Most of my San Francisco friends dare not move or move to Oakland. People move here in NYC all the time, paying roughly the same in rent accounting for yearly inflation related increases.

Re: Spain Runs Out of Workers with Almost 5M Unemployed

#286

Post by JBReefer »

feklar wrote: post #179
fchollet wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes. Specifically, rents are much higher in SF/SV than in NYC. SF has even higher rent than Manhattan. Most of NYC (not Manhattan or Williamsburg) can be quite reasonable.

Does SF gave rent brokers you have to go through? Manhattan you have to pay first/last rent to a broker plus deposit you need around 8-$12k to sign any lease up front

Brokers fee is one month, not two, and the outer boroughs are much cheaper.

Re: Spain Runs Out of Workers with Almost 5M Unemployed

#287

Post by anjc »

yummyfajitas wrote: post #281
anjc wrote: post #234

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My "arbitrary boundary" is my country and consists of citizens of my country, whether they're indigenous or not. If you like seeing an underclass being manufactured in your country due to the profit maximisation of businesses then that's your problem. Spain has 50% unemployment for under 30's. This is a national disaster and will have effects that last generations, and companies that operate within the country should…

The underclass is already created due to the nationalism of citizens in your country (and mine). The only question is whether you see them or not. I guess as long as desperate poverty is out of sight, it's also out of mind, right? ...companies that operate within the country should be mandated to address it. I'll be sure not to operate within Spain. Why bother with that kind of a hassle when India, China and Singapor…

> The underclass is already created due to the nationalism of citizens in your country

Poverty due to endemic unemployment in Spain is caused by nationalism? And it can be solved via free movement of labour between third world countries and European ones?

Re: Spain Runs Out of Workers with Almost 5M Unemployed

#288

Post by _mikz »

franciscop wrote: post #240
_mikz wrote: post #218

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We are on Ruby, Sinatra, Rails, Nginx, Lua & not afraid of new technologies. Our open positions are on https://www.3scale.net/about/jobs/ We're based in Barcelona, but had remote workers in the past and still might be opened to that after some warmup time. On some hiring sites we were publically posting 50k EUR for Senior Backend Developer. Being here for 5 years I can say there is plenty of growth space for good dev…

But the problem I see is that the top people you might want would have no problem finding a similar position in a US company for 2x-3x that salary. So what how do you compete in the global economy with a 50+% salary cut? Do most of your developers only speak Spanish? Or do they have their roots firmly set in Spain (family/friends/relationships)?

Maybe because working remote is not for everyone. I actually really enjoy working with people in our office. They are awesome. I relocated there few years ago and we are not only colleagues but also friends. Some people don't speak Spanish at all. Everyone has to speak English. That is official language of the company.

Re: Spain Runs Out of Workers with Almost 5M Unemployed

#289

Post by josu »

franciscop wrote: post #136

Spanish dev here. I created with some friends the most active Maker group in Spain [1]. We won contests like Hyperloop's, NASA's SpaceApps (once winners, twice finalists), making robot competitions [2], teaching to everyone, etc. A couple of days ago we were talking about who would continue it, since ALL of us are leaving the country for different reasons. So I can say that I know what it means that skilled workers a…

Not in tech, but in finance, and your words resonate with my experience too. After working in a project for a bank, I got headhunted by one of the Big 4, I turned down what I considered a laughable job offer (22K) and moved to Mexico. I couldn't be happier with my choice. If you are young, Mexico offers many more opportunities to develop a fulfilling professional career than Spain does.

Re: Spain Runs Out of Workers with Almost 5M Unemployed

#290

Post by mpeg »

triplesec wrote: post #224
reitanqild wrote: post #221

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For a while my former employer used a Spanish software consultancy for second level support on an open source solution; they were happy to work with us because we paid well [0] and didn't argue on every bill like their other (mostly south American I think) clients did. [0]: my boss told me literally to tell them: contract is fine, except for the hourly rate, I should tell them he would not accept to be associated wit…

Are you seriously saying you are using child labour?

Lots of countries in the world allow underage kids (think 14-16) to work, it's actually a very valid alternative to higher education.
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