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UK votes to leave EU

bbc.co.uk

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Re: UK votes to leave EU

#281

Post by UK-AL »

doikor wrote: post #279
darawk wrote: post #271

So, devil's advocate here: Can someone explain to me why this is a bad thing? I feel like most educated people seem to think this is terrible (and the markets seem to agree), but to me, the European union seems like an anti-democratic institution that doesn't really provide much value. I mean, don't me wrong, removing trade barriers is probably good. But won't the UK just be able to pretty quickly renegotiate basical…

UK most likely wont be able to negotiate similar terms with EU countries. France/Germany at least will be pissed with them and give UK terrible deals out of spite. I expect a lot of other EU countries to do the same. edit: Also I now have to buy my shit from France/Germany Amazon? (Or just have an English language Amazon for the continental Europe please...)

Out of spite? Refusing to neogiate decent trade deals would mean tons of job losses for Germany and France.

Re: UK votes to leave EU

#282

Post by lifeisstillgood »

Let's call the rising tide of politicians shouting "Our Nation First!" (And stage whispering "Our Race First") something like "the New Right". Not fascism per se but isolationist, anti-laissez faire and definitely anti-science.

So what is "The New Left"? Left wing politics in the UK is in disarray, Bernie Saunders espouses a vision that most of Europe sees as frankly old hat centrist, and there is no defining political viewpoint that is encompassing the (now dispossessed) young, the march of technology, the lessons learnt over communism and socialism.

Is the answer just to double down on democracy? Turn to your principles in time of trouble? We are losing the argument in open debate though. Just more "trust us, this is business as usual" does not seem to be a rallying cry.

Where is the intellectual core of what will oppose the New Right?

Re: UK votes to leave EU

#284

Post by Zpalmtree »

thesimpsons1022 wrote: post #93

anyone else concerned? The entire world seems to be moving towards fascist right wing nationalist politics. Whether it is the brexit, trumpism, or the austrian elections. Europe keeps getting destabilized. If i was an enemy of europe and freedom, id be cheering. Instead i'm deeply concerned.

The EU is the opposite of freedom. This is Britain choosing to not let unelected bureaucrats of Brussels tell Britain what laws we should have.

Re: UK votes to leave EU

#285

Post by imsofuture »

gakada wrote: post #280
darawk wrote: post #271

So, devil's advocate here: Can someone explain to me why this is a bad thing? I feel like most educated people seem to think this is terrible (and the markets seem to agree), but to me, the European union seems like an anti-democratic institution that doesn't really provide much value. I mean, don't me wrong, removing trade barriers is probably good. But won't the UK just be able to pretty quickly renegotiate basical…

Single market. Despite some bigots who don't want Polish people existing near them, having free movement of people, goods, capital and all the rest of it is really good for the participant economies. Can you imagine if US citizens had to get a visa to move from New York to California?

The US and the EU are really different entities.

Re: UK votes to leave EU

#287

Post by bontoJR »

darawk wrote: post #271

So, devil's advocate here: Can someone explain to me why this is a bad thing? I feel like most educated people seem to think this is terrible (and the markets seem to agree), but to me, the European union seems like an anti-democratic institution that doesn't really provide much value. I mean, don't me wrong, removing trade barriers is probably good. But won't the UK just be able to pretty quickly renegotiate basical…

Because it's unknown and it's actually the same points that have been brought when Switzerland decided to stay outside. The arguments were:

- We are going to be isolated - Our economy will crash - We will struggle to find high educated people - We will just disappear

Now, after almost 25 years we can't say we did the wrong thing, but hey, UK is not Switzerland, it's a totally different economy which different proportions.

I don't think this has to be considered totally bad, it's a sign something HAS to change, but now the brits have to work to make this happen in the very best way, it's an opportunity and a clear demonstration that the actual structure of the EU can't work on this way, this seems to be pretty clear.

Only time will say if the decision was good or not, but which side is going to end this decision is up to the britains, they have to work hard and do it now to make this be a good thing, rather the beginning of the end, starting with keeping Scotland in the UK.

Re: UK votes to leave EU

#288

Post by davnn »

I truly do not understand our society. Europe is split, even if the countries aren't, the people are. Every political decision ends up being a race of the well-educated against the less-educated. The clash of classes happens not only in Europe, the Trump success is the same story. Maybe I'm just too young and uninformed to understand and that's how the world works ever since?

Re: UK votes to leave EU

#289

Post by m_mueller »

gakada wrote: post #280
darawk wrote: post #271

So, devil's advocate here: Can someone explain to me why this is a bad thing? I feel like most educated people seem to think this is terrible (and the markets seem to agree), but to me, the European union seems like an anti-democratic institution that doesn't really provide much value. I mean, don't me wrong, removing trade barriers is probably good. But won't the UK just be able to pretty quickly renegotiate basical…

Single market. Despite some bigots who don't want Polish people existing near them, having free movement of people, goods, capital and all the rest of it is really good for the participant economies. Can you imagine if US citizens had to get a visa to move from New York to California?

Switzerland has had trade and free movement agreements with the EU for a while now. This argument alone doesn't justify a full membership IMO. Being a member of the economical zone does just that.

Re: UK votes to leave EU

#290

Post by dharma1 »

darawk wrote: post #271

So, devil's advocate here: Can someone explain to me why this is a bad thing? I feel like most educated people seem to think this is terrible (and the markets seem to agree), but to me, the European union seems like an anti-democratic institution that doesn't really provide much value. I mean, don't me wrong, removing trade barriers is probably good. But won't the UK just be able to pretty quickly renegotiate basical…

A lot of businesses, including startups, will consider where they need to be based for access to a European single market.

Until today that was likely to be London.

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