Classism in America • Hacker News Board

Re: Classism in America

#281

Post by [deleted] » Thu, Apr 07, 2016, 8:38 AM UTC

13of40 wrote: post #256

rwjwjuwjudf wrote: post #185

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People also use something like that to mask a lack of knowledge / experience / understanding / intelligence. Once in a while someone uses big words so well it's poetry, but those people are the exception.

It's interesting to watch how, in a big tech project, a director or architect will occasionally start using a word like "corpus", "idempotent", "assert", etc. and it will trickle down the layers of the team. By the time the keypunch guy is using it, it's gone out of fashion, like last year's suit.

[deleted]

Re: Classism in America

#282

Post by wizardforhire » Thu, Apr 07, 2016, 8:41 AM UTC

13of40 wrote: post #256

rwjwjuwjudf wrote: post #185

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People also use something like that to mask a lack of knowledge / experience / understanding / intelligence. Once in a while someone uses big words so well it's poetry, but those people are the exception.

It's interesting to watch how, in a big tech project, a director or architect will occasionally start using a word like "corpus", "idempotent", "assert", etc. and it will trickle down the layers of the team. By the time the keypunch guy is using it, it's gone out of fashion, like last year's suit.

Knowing this, it's fun to purposely mispronounce words to see if it will catch on...

Re: Classism in America

#283

Post by known » Thu, Apr 07, 2016, 8:41 AM UTC

norea-armozel wrote: post #79

kelukelugames wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I feel programmers have made it econimically. I know a large number of devs in their 30s who make over 200k a year. But we haven't climbed the social ladder as well. Maybe that follows the money.

Yep, that's definitely my situation in life. Still working class despite the salary. It's like the areas that are suppose to be open to me seem hostile to my mere presence. I'm not sure if it's the way I walk, talk, act, or whatever. Just the look on certain people's faces really tell me that I'm not welcomed or "one of them" without a single word said on the matter. It's so weird being aware of it now after all thes…

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dominant_minority

Re: Classism in America

#284

Post by wizardforhire » Thu, Apr 07, 2016, 8:41 AM UTC

WalterBright wrote: post #188

rwjwjuwjudf wrote: post #185

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People also use something like that to mask a lack of knowledge / experience / understanding / intelligence. Once in a while someone uses big words so well it's poetry, but those people are the exception.

Technobabble is a prime example of that. (Star Trek TNG is a hilarious example of pseudo-science jibber jabber.)

Tech the tech!

Re: Classism in America

#285

Post by arethuza » Thu, Apr 07, 2016, 8:43 AM UTC

mdpopescu wrote: post #268

wil421 wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For me, the Scottish accent is the hardest of the English accents for me to understand. I work with English speakers from New Zealand/Australia and India to the UK/Ireland. English and Scottish sayings/slang are my favorite. Southerns have some good sayings but they are not as enjoyable for me to hear, maybe because I used to them.

(Non-native English speaker here.) I worked for a Scot in Dublin for three months before I realized his accent wasn't Irish. I also had almost no problem understanding him. On the other hand, I find it almost impossible to read text that is supposed to show Scottish accent, like the one from arethuza.

Listening to that phrase would be worse in reality as folk from the North East of Scotland tend to talk quite quickly and without proper breaks between words.

I've probably said something like that many times when I was younger (I now have, as someone described it, an "affected Edinburgh accent"). However, you can get silly Scots phrases like:

"Fit fit fits fit fit?"

Or, my favourite:

"Aye, ane an an ingin ane an a"

The latter I can't say without almost singing (and smiling).

Re: Classism in America

#286

Post by facetube » Thu, Apr 07, 2016, 9:09 AM UTC

wizardforhire wrote: post #282

13of40 wrote: post #256

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's interesting to watch how, in a big tech project, a director or architect will occasionally start using a word like "corpus", "idempotent", "assert", etc. and it will trickle down the layers of the team. By the time the keypunch guy is using it, it's gone out of fashion, like last year's suit.

Knowing this, it's fun to purposely mispronounce words to see if it will catch on...

Go all the way IMO: make up the words and see if they catch on.

Re: Classism in America

#287

Post by jholman » Thu, Apr 07, 2016, 9:16 AM UTC

kough wrote: post #157

skrjabin wrote: post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The author is obviously self-aware and this is precisely what makes it frustrating. Nearly every point is obfuscated through ornamentation, or broken up into parenthetical statements like a jigsaw puzzle. The entire article could be summarized in a concise paragraph with minimal loss of meaning. It's just pretension.

This writing style is itself a performance of Rationalist culture. Read anything by The Last Psychiatrist or Scott Alexander or Eliezer Yudkowsky for comparison.

You think The Last Psychiatrist is performing Rationalist culture? I hadn't noticed such a relationship, and at a moment's consideration I still don't notice it, and if you really do think that, I'd appreciate any evidence you can point me to.

Re: Classism in America

#288

Post by jholman » Thu, Apr 07, 2016, 9:21 AM UTC

notlisted wrote: post #263

lemoncucumber wrote: post #208

LiveJournal is so low class, the author should've picked a nice middle-class platform like Medium to publish this

Funny, to me it was an indicator of her age (ie when she started using the Internet). I have the same reaction to articles on blogger. I associate Medium with minimalist know-it-all bearded fixie hipster programmers (under 35). :p Still better then the SV(u)btle peeps (but less exclusive, by invitation only peeps, let's keep it classy!).

I agree with you (strongly about medium, though I disagree about blogger). Or, to put it in terms more related to the article...

Medium is nouveau riche, LJ is authentic aristocracy. If you think Medium is "nice middle-class", it means you're lower-middle-class.

PS: I can't tell if I'm kidding or not.

PPS: what does it say about my class that I thought these post-scripts are a good idea?

Re: Classism in America

#289

Post by limelight » Thu, Apr 07, 2016, 9:26 AM UTC

llull wrote: post #42

The truth of the essay is illustrated by studies that show lower social mobility over longer generational windows, i.e. ones grandfather's income quintile is a better predictor of ones owns than ones fathers's. The intangible cultural inheritance of social class is more lasting than fluctuations in material wealth.

Do you have links to those studies?

I've always found the reflexivity of class to be somewhat interesting. Economically, my family is in the bottom quartile of the country—but it never felt like that. They definitely raised me with "upper class" values and attitudes. (For example, there was never even a shadow of a doubt about whether I'd attend college.) My grandparents, on the other hand, were quite well off.

As such, I've always felt more comfortable and fit in with people whose families have incomes vastly exceeding my family's.

Re: Classism in America

#290

Post by morgante » Thu, Apr 07, 2016, 9:31 AM UTC

50CNT wrote: post #274

nkurz wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You ask in another comment whether you are oblivious. Playfully, I respond "Yes, you are oblivious". Using "shibboleth" as a shibboleth is itself a shibboleth. She's declaring her bona fides (gratuitous Latin is also a shibboleth, especially if highlighted with italics) as a scholar by demonstrating her ability to use an obscure term correctly, and is being gracious to her audience by assuming their comprehension. Sw…

Cognizant of your tone, it seems those twobuckn'fifty words are turning a perfectly clear statement into the written equivalent of caramel toffee. It's not terrible, but sticky to chew through. Ain't a college essay with a 500 word cap, spaces are cheap and plenty. Ploughing as many 7 syllable words as possible into a sentence makes an author seem...self-conscious about tone. Strunk & White says "Omit Needless Words"…

I presume this was intentional, but I found your first paragraph hard to read. I had to go through it twice to get the meaning of each sentence down.

In contrast, I find the "ornamental" language of the essay itself to flow easily. It's all part of the register we're typically accustomed to. Shibboleth, for example, is instantly recognizable to me (though it always reminds me of The West Wing).